Just wanted to gauge how people feel about some of the fouls Harden gets. I'm not talking about all fouls, but mainly the ones on the perimeter where a defender has his hand up or out - fully extended or not - and Harden does either the rip through move or just goes up for the shot underneath the opponent's arms making it seem like they foul him. I get that a defender is in the offensive's player's cilinder, but Harden initiates the contact so to me those should be no calls. In that regard, I wouldn't mind a 'Harden rule'. The current one is just too ambiguous. There's also the one where he hooks the opponent's arms, the ones where he uses the screener to get a foul called and the one where little contact causes Harden to snap his head back, though we've seen Harden significantly toning them down this season. To me, from a fan who likes to watch basketball, the less Harden relies on refs in general, the more enjoyable the game is to watch. Nobody in their right mind should want the rip through move to be rewarded, to see a guy just waiting for defenders to foul him and then getting FTs or watching a head snapping back on minimum contact. From an aesthetic point of view that is. Also Harden is too good to rely on refs!! Now, what I will say is, in the context of the game and winning I'm all for Harden getting any calls he can get. There's legitimate fouls where he gets pushed, hacked or slapped that doesn't get called. In particular in the beginning of the season there was a clear bias against Harden who often just takes advantage of the rules and the way referees call the game. Blame the rules and the referees first I'd say, before complaining about Harden's play style or whatever. Now he seems to get the ticky-tack silly fouls, but still not the serious ones. That is not on Harden. So once the referees start calling the game fairly, which will never happen, I will even start a campaign against what Harden is doing. Until then though, while I strongly dislike it, we need every point we can get.
You cannot seriously believe that...and even if you do, should they all be free throws? Or you're just trying to be a / an (smart) ass like some of these fools on this board?
They are proper fouls and are being called as such. There really isn’t anything to discuss. They aren’t just being called for Harden either.
I guess the refs are helping him lead the league in three point makes, have the best per game in the league and be the second per assist guy in the league.? What petty attempt at starting anti harden thread. I guess the undercover haters have less topics to start there usual nonsense so they will resort to anything Not even going to mention him leading the league in win shares and carrying us to our best regular season in franchise history. This is all the while they ( nba) initiated the anti harden as well. Harden from continuesly attacks the rim throughout games so generally he gets rewarded it
What a dramatic post and the reason I brought it up is exactly because of reactions like yours. Rockets fans are way too sensitive about this topic. Even in general forums where it’s being discussed now since the Denver game, which is justified, Rockets fans do not even want to discuss it and immediately say hater, anti-Harden bias etc.
They need to keep their f**king hands to themselves and they won't get foul calls. A call early in the game yesterday Harden got blatantly raked across the arms and the entire arena reacted with an exasperated "how can you call that" moan. People are quick to complain about his raw FT numbers, but never acknowledge that 90% of them are inarguable fouls, and the other 10% are usually justifiable. There was one complete BS call in the Denver game (that didn't even result in FT"S), and naturally reddit had a popular thread on that one bad call, and decided to use it as an example of all Harden fouls. Opposing fans are mad that Harden is skilled and aware enough to get a legit foul when it presents itself, and their guys aren't. It would be like blaming a baseball player for being too good at drawing walks. A foul is a foul, I'm not gonna listen to people b**** about it.
Points taken, but you cannot deny that it’s at least debatable whether keeping a hand out and then Harden going up should be a foul or not and whether FTs should be awarded or not. If you don’t then there’s no point talking to you and you’re just being stubborn sorry
I don't know if you've ever shot a basketball, but it's hard to go from you normal shooting pocket up into a normal shot without putting the ball in front of you. If there's a hand in that pocket and you go up for your standard shooting motion then it is a shooting foul. Keep your hand up, not out. Everybody agrees the side rip through was BS, and they got rid of it as a shooting foul. The pump fake and jump forward into a defender in the air (clearly not in a normal shooting motion) is the worst call in basketball, but because everybody does it, not just Harden, the league deems that OK, and smart. Forgive me if I'm not a fan of the hypocrisy
Thanks, now we’re getting somewhere. I play basketball and if my hand is out fully extended, clearly in the offensive player’s cylinder I am committing a foul. There’s also cases where a defender just has his hand in front of him / towards Harden’s hip in case Harden is going to drive OR ones where a defender just reacting with his hands to Harden’s moves and once that hand comes too close, Harden goes up for the shot. In those cases to me it’s arguable whether it’s a foul and especially if the guy should get FTs. Good points about the side rip through and jumping into a defender. I would argue some of Harden’s moves like hooking someone’s arm and going underneath someone’s arm / hand - both he does when defenders try to go over a screen - are on par with those two. It’s not just about Harden, but I brought it up since it’s being discussed in general forums and I notice how sensitive and defensive Rockets fans get. We all know Harden benefits probably most so another reason to put our guy under the loop. By the way, I never claimed all fouls in those situations like Denver are the ones I dislike and or have problems with. I agree that if the league seems it okay then go ahead, take advantage. Doesn’t mean I have to like it though.
How many shooting fouls on 3 pointers has Harden drawn this ear compared to others players? Does anyone know? I don’t fault him for taking advantage of how officials call the game. That said, I wouldn’t mind them tweaking how those plays are called. Harden would adjust and still be an MVP caliber player, and that would be one less thing for media and other fans to complain about regarding how he plays.
Too many options, I didn't care to read them all, but let me pitch in anyway. He got away from most of your examples this years, but every time the defender reaches, it's a foul. It's getting called more consistently this year, IMO, once he stopped most of the hooking and flailing. On a general basis, one thing that stands out to me is that he knows he's getting fouled and he exploits that, which I guess is pretty obvious to anyone who watches the Rockets play. People get annoyed, I think, because he's outsmarting the defense at the same time where he's strong enough to protect himself from getting hurt and many times is able score, all in the same move. I don't recall fans and analysts mad at pre-LeBron D-Wade when he was leading the league in FTA (he averaged more then 9 FTA/game for six straight years until the superfriends). He was getting fouled, just like Harden. He was exploiting the defense, just like Harden. But he was crashing on the ground and making circus shots, which may look better from the outside. But at the end of the day he was taking way more risks and ended up getting injured a lot for someone as athletic as he was at the time. So he wasn't outsmarting people, something that probably look better for the average Joe. Harden is shooting just as many FT, but he never got hurt because of that and I as a Rockets fan don't get scared when he's driving to the basket, because he's always under control. Wade was in danger of breaking his neck once every couple of games, so everyone would just say he was amazing doing all that while getting fouled. Guess what, Harden is doing amazing things while getting fouled AND he's not putting his body in jeopardy. Let the haters hate, the media will crawl back once we win it all this June.
Listening to the Denver broadcast, they compared Harden "rules" are like Jordan "rules". Basically, un-guardable unless to you allow some sort of contact. It's the hard fouls that are sometimes not called but the "touch" fouls are...I think because the ref's can actually see the foul or lack of one. But in the end, the "rip" move is a foul (don't put your hand there), unless they decide that's unfair next year...
Where's the option of I like it, most of the fouls are legit, and NBA should call fouls more correctly? Defenders aren't allowed to invade an offensive player's space, put a hand on the offensive player, and have to set their feet to get charges.
I agree with you on this one. Just to better explain what I mentioned in the earlier post, from the eye test I feel like there were far less obvious missed calls this year, apart from the earlier games specially against the Grizz and at Boston (man, it feels like ages ago!). He is not hooking arms like he was doing last year because it is (correctly, should I say) being called an offensive foul. He is not flailing across the defender who tries to fight over the screens because it's not a shooting foul anymore AND teams are switching. I've watched basically every game, I don't know if it's just me but I think the overall refereeing on James has been consistent this year, apart from the continuation. Last year, there were several games when the refs would stop calling obvious fouls when he was getting smacked on both arms, but he was averaging almost 11 FTA/game anyway. It felt like, once he'd shot 15 or such, the refs would stop calling. This is not happening this year as routinely IMO. So, I do believe he IS relying less on the refs.
