The Cole fascination still live and kickin'. Appears he peaked two seasons ago and is a BOR guy. Luhnow has earned trust, so maybe he sees more potential.
Of course they have 10 guys who can go out and give you a competent MLB start tomorrow if they add Cole, 9 at least without him. Verlander Keuchel McCullers Morton McHugh Cole Martes Peacock Musgrove Feliz Those are 10 guys who can give you a start... not saying they are all equal, obviously they aren't but they are competent enough and give you a decent chance to win a MLB game... that's all you can ask of guys that far down the depth chart. That's incredible depth. I'm not worried about that. I'm worried about the bullpen though. A bullpen that every competent baseball mind heading into the playoffs put as the Astros weakness and were justifiably skeptical of. A bullpen that was an absolute disaster in the postseason and was commonly recognized as a weakness on an otherwise elite ball club. Even when non-overused, I wouldn't put our bullpen up with LA, NYY or BOS who all had some seriously elite arms in their pen. We are firmly in our championship window and just watched a postseason where we couldn't trust a single relief pitcher. Yes, that concerns me tremendously. I think strengthening that area via trade/free agency should be a priority. Cole would be nice. Necessary? Not really. The starter depth is tremendous. The team isn't crying out for another solid #3ish pitcher. The team is calling out for elite bullpen arms.
Astros analytically are second to none. I assume they see Cole as a guy who needs to throw his two seam fastball more and move away from his change up and back to more sliders.
I know they weren't the flashiest signings, but Rondon and especially Smith should both be nice bullpen improvements.
https://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/gerrit-coles-crucial-pivot/ Read this, and it will help you to understand the fascination with Cole.
They did just fine without him. No telling how the playoffs would have played out had things changed.
You realize that guys that aren't starters get converted to bullpen guys... which usually equals better bullpens. You also include failed starters like Musgrove... and guys who've never started an MLB game like Feliz.... that's not really starting depth. That's your bullpen depth. You massively underrate the regular season performances of Devenski, Harris, Musgrove, and Giles. You're willing to throw them all away for a bad post-season. That's pretty emotional managing on your part. And, given the attention they've spent to improving the area, I'd say this team is desperate for a #1-3-ish starting pitcher... not only because of the health issues of the current starters, but because there expects to be a lot of turnover with these starters over the next 1-2 years.
Saw unconfirmed rumor on another site that Luhnow offered Martes and Fisher, thought they had a deal, Pittsburgh then came back and asked for a 3rd prospect, Luhnow said no. I don’t expect a deal to get done, not today at least.
And we still lit up those elite bullpens in the playoffs. Aside from needing a lefty that can actually get lefties out (why we tried to acquire Zach Britton), I felt our bullpen was fine in the regular season. Will Harris was fantastic in thee regular season, Devo was fantastic for most of the regular season, and Ken Giles was very good in the regular season. I think you might be making too big of a distinction between the starting rotation and the bullpen. What our postseason taught me, is that the traditional "starting pitching" and "bullpen" roles become very muddy in the playoffs. Hinch showed the best thing to do is to just ride the hot hand. That won't necessarily always work, but it sure as hell worked for us. You saw Dave Roberts take the other approach, and he stayed very rigidly to his bullpen roles. And I believe the refusal to deviate from that gameplan was to their detriment. Gerrit Cole isn't a necessity, but he'd be such a nice luxury to have as the our third starter. And trading for Cole, then still adding a bullpen arm are not mutually exclusive. We could still trade for a Brad Hand, even after trading for Gerrit Cole. And like others have mentioned, Joe Smith and Hector Rondon will hopefully be very solid additions to our bullpen.
Yep; why fans wouldn't be beside themselves at the thought of this front office and this coaching staff getting their hands all over a talent like Cole is beyond me.
I could see Collin McHugh (who will almost certainly be traded if Cole comes to Houston) having appeal to the Padres. McHugh is technically more valuable than Hand so not sure how that trade would work but flipping McHugh, Fisher, and Martes for Cole and Hand would be pretty sweet.
Our top 3 or 4 starters can start playoff games and our other 6 starters can pitch in relief during playoff games.
Agree on Musgrove...BUT Keuchel, Verlander, Lance, Cole, Morton, Peacock, McHugh Giles, Devo, Harris, Rondon, Smith That's 12 right there and no lefties for the pen That's why I think if we acquire a guy like Cole, even as good as Musgrove was out of the pen there just isn't a spot I'm still very high on Feliz and even moreso on Martes. I think Martes could easily go to AAA but that would be a little tougher on Feliz who has been up so long already I think it's fairly likely if we get Cole and aren't giving up Whitley or Tucker (and i don't think we would do that) then either Musgrove or Feliz would likely be involved in the deal
I think I've stated multiple times I'd be happy to add Gerrit Cole. I'm just adding that I'm concerned we are adding starter depth when we already have probably some of the best starter depth in the league while also having some massive question marks in the bullpen. I think the bullpen needs serious attention either via free agency or trade. We have some good pieces but they should give you some pause after the 2017 postseason and in comparison with other contenders our bullpen is not impressive at all. We were forced to band-aid our way through the postseason converting starters to come out of the bullpen and "finding a way to win" because we couldn't trust a single relief pitcher. I guess I'm just being emotional because I think that area could use more attention. Despite what some would have you believe, the bullpen wasn't lights out in the regular season either. Giles was scary, Devenski faded badly, Harris had injuries and lost effectiveness... it wasn't exactly all rainbows and lollipops. The 2nd half of the season and going into the playoffs it was pretty obvious the bullpen was not anywhere near as good as some of the other contenders. Some of the other contenders had some extremely impressive post-season bullpen performances. We had 0. We overcame getting practically 0 from the pen in the postseason but it was a terrible situation.
What's stopping those that don't make the final five from giving you 2-3 innings of super reliever innings?
Man that would be amazing. I know the man has powers, but I think even Jeff Luhnow's sorcery has limits!
While this makes perfect sense, I do not see the Padres flipping Hand for McHugh. The Padres demands for Hand have been absurd.
Right, and I wasn't insinuating that you don't want Cole. I guess what most are saying is that adding a quality starter, in effect, also benefits the bullpen. I know that Giles is a divisive player on here, but I simply cannot call his regular season last year "scary." 2.30 era, 1.04 whip, and an 11.9 k/9 innings pitched. If by "scary" you mean "not perfect," I'll concede.
