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Zach Lavine, worthwhile target next summer?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DonatelloLimestone, Apr 16, 2021.

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Would you max Zach Lavine?

  1. Yes! Elite athletic entertaining scorer, still getting better

    37.0%
  2. No, just a scorer, not worth a max

    63.0%
  1. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Ceiling comp is Kobe and MJ.

    Crazy but true.

    Any other draft, Jalen Green likely first overall pick.
     
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  2. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    I fully agree looking at all options, but Lavine just isn't that guy, and this franchise is not correctly positioned to due something like that.

    Also here is the thing. How many Title winning teams have been manufactured around a star player who cannot at least carry his team into the playoffs, even if they flame out in the 1st round? It is less than 5 over the past like 50 years. Those are steep odds.

    Also, MVP caliber players go to teams they WANT to go do, not because of the of the 2nd team or 3rd All NBA team player on that team. Those players go to teams with legacies (Lakers, Celtics), in major cities as a platform to get into other industries (Brooklyn), legendary greats in the FO (Riley in Miami), or hometowns (Kawaii in LA). And then they get the 2nd team/3rd team player to force a trade to the team the MVP players wants to be at.

    If the Rockets franchise want to attract an MVP level star as a FA/Trade they need to work on their FO appearance and name brand. Unless Hakeem/Drexler/Yao/McGrady is going to become a great FO mind and join the organization officially; Houston tries to rebrand its image and steal the growing computer/tech market developing out in Austin or develop more of a tourist scene; or a future an NBA star grows up in Houston that is not happening.

    The whole "diamond in the rough" Harden trade will probably never happen again. I legitimately cannot recall any other player trajectory with bench/6th man to Trade to MVP/HOF in the modern NBA.
     
  3. Le$$

    Le$$ Member

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    If you added Cade, and Signed Zach Levine. You could be a playoff team you think. Depending on who they sign. But having both Zach and Wood at 26 is not bad, with the youngins.
     
  4. cheke64

    cheke64 Member

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    do not want him. He's in the D'lo tier range
     
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  5. Garner

    Garner Member

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    It is 100% the Bulls' decision if they trade him or not.
     
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  6. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member

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    C'mon, this is ridiculous.
    Even if he would fit under the cap, absolutely not.
    The dude's 26 and we're rebuilding.
    I have other reasons against I could name, but he's a non starter based on the above alone.

    END.OF.DISCUSSION.
     
  7. MIAGI99

    MIAGI99 Member

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    Do not want.
     
  8. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

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    I do want.


    #KeepTankAlive
    Go Rockets!!!

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  9. Scarface

    Scarface Supremely FocASSed
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    Totally agree!! The Lakers were fools for signing Lebron. Don’t even get me started on the Nets signing KD after his achilles tear and trading their future for 32 year old Harden...
     
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  10. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    This is a good point, Lebron and Levine are roughly equal
     
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  11. BamBam

    BamBam Contributing Member

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    IIRC the same age as well.

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  12. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Harden was not an All Star when we traded for him if I recall.

    Lavine at least has one of those under his belt + he is still only 25.

    Not saying we should trade for him, or even if we could, only pointing out that a change in scenery has done wonders for players in the past.
     
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  13. Lloyd Estacio

    Lloyd Estacio Member

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    I completely agree
     
  14. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    Sure, lavine was an "allstar" in the east, who gives a crap. Harden was producing .23 WS/48 his 3rd year in OKC, this is the 1st time lavine even got to .1. The only thing harden and lavine have in common is they both play basketball and basically play the same position, but some nonsense eastern conference "allstar" team means nothing in reality. Can lavine be a decent 3rd option? probably, but if he's your best you're gonna suck but not suck as much as we need to, and that's the worst case scenario.
     
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  15. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Again, not advocating that Lavine is signed.

    Only pointing out that CF has a tendency to talk in extremes, that happened when Harden was traded too.

    There were actually many well known posters who were adamant that the trade would fail and we all would rue losing K-Mart, Lamb and the picks.
     
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  16. HROZ

    HROZ Member

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    He won't be available.

    Fools gold
     
  17. astrosrule

    astrosrule Member

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    That's fine, analytics weren't quite what they are now, so people who didn't care about advanced metrics didn't understand what Harden was. We know with 100% certainty that Lavine would be a horrific signing, there's no upside, only massive downside.
     
  18. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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  19. Milos

    Milos Member

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    On Lavine -

    Most are suggesting Lavine's next deal will be 4yrs @ $1XXM ... Well north of $30M per

    I'd let somebody else make that mistake
    Lavine is just another D'Angelo Russell to me
    Incredibly overpaid to be 'the man' in lotto purgatory

    Instead I'd see what it would take to lock up KPJ for the next 3yrs as we wait out Wall & EGo albatrosses
    If it's anything close to what we gave CWood I'm all for it
    His current second half flashes of brilliance are becoming more the norm than the exception
    Remind you of a certain former Piston's flashes last season pre-lockdown?

    Next to KPJ in the backcourt, Lavine would be very redundant
    Instead I'd look for a better complement ...
    Ideally a 3&D style G to smother the ball, knock down open 3s, and capably run point without needing to dominate the ball to impact the game
    Marcus Smart is my prototype


    On your second point -

    You mentioned the importance of these next couple of seasons in terms of rebranding the organization as a destination for established stars looking for greener pastures ... I totally agree

    CWood + KPJ + Top3pick (Cade, Suggs, Mobley)
    That is a very young, cheap & talented core upon which Silas can start building the next Rockets contender over the next 2 years as Stone waits out Wall & EGo to make the next Harden-level acquisition

    I think Silas will become a big selling point for us to these 'centerpiece' stars as they shop around

    Having a rock solid, young supporting cast already in place will be crucial as well, and it looks like we may have 3 of those pieces once draft night concludes just months from now


    One such star has caught my eye as a prime target for recruitment once Wall becomes expiring

    He has several earmarks of a future trade target:
    - just locked in a new Max deal on perpetual lotto team, where stars in their prime on Max deal often get frustrated and start shopping
    - current team is also among worst FA markets in NBA, meaning he cannot recruit anyone to join him for the next super team
    - has meaningful Rocket connection as a Houston kid who played HS ball in Katy
    - near-perfect positional and stylistic fit next to KPJ in backcourt

    De'Aaron Fox would be ideal as John Wall's successor at PG
    His game is like a left-handed mirror of pre-injury Wall - a blur of one man breaks, P&R creativity, and stifling D on-ball & jumping pass lanes
    He plays well off the ball spotting up and as a cutter
    On-ball as the point man, he is capable of taking over games as a scorer, but he looks to create for others first and willingly feeds teammates while still impacting the game in other phases
    He and KPJ would work beautifully together

    Combine that backcourt with the NEW Twin Towers (Mobley & Wood) & the 2023 Rockets could make some serious noise
    I love this starting 5:
    Wood
    Mobley
    Tate (or upgrade to better 3&D wing)
    KPJ
    Fox
     
    #59 Milos, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
  20. Milos

    Milos Member

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    Athletically and skill-wise as a scorer, there are similarities ... but those guys are the 2 best SGs of all-time IMO

    What separated and defined those 2 more than physical gifts or skill was their mentality - pure stone-cold killers

    Do you have some insight as to whether Green shares this single-minded obsession to dominate?
    If not, the MJ/Kobe tier is out of the question

    Without that level of focus & dedication to greatness, there is a long list of immensely athletic, highly skilled scoring wings who never reached that GOAT elite tier:
    Tmac, Vince, Clyde, Dominique, Harden

    Those 5 are all HoF players, so getting that caliber of scorer in Green would still be a home run of a pick

    I also wonder how the tandem of KPJ + Green would work as complementary pair
    Seems that Cade, Mobley or Suggs would all be better fits for this team
    I get that teams just beginning a total rebuild should draft for upside over fit, but IMO that only applies if the talent gap is substantial

    IMO none of those 3 take a backseat to Green in terms of overall potential
    Green may very well become the best scorer of this class, and could still finish his career no better than the 4th best overall player drafted

    Mobley & Suggs will step in day one as elite DEF players
    Cade & Suggs are already proven playmakers that create for others
    Green will have to develop these aspects on the fly to become the all-around superstar around whom championship teams are built

    I'm not saying he can't or won't do that, but at this point, the other 3 contenders for top pick have much more well-rounded games ... and it's not like any are slouches as scorers either
     
    #60 Milos, Apr 19, 2021
    Last edited: Apr 19, 2021
    DonatelloLimestone likes this.

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