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YOURE KIDDING ME

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rockets688, Dec 18, 2002.

  1. rockets688

    rockets688 Member

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    Does anyone else think it heinous that Craig Biggio, one of the premiere second basemen in the league for the last however many years, is being moved to the outfield? Has it not occured to the front office to move Kent to a SS position and either send Lugo packing (so he had his little hitting streak last season, so what?) and split 3rd base between Loretta and Viscaino? That would make the most sense to me.

    Regardless of emotional ties between biggio and second base, there's the all important relationship between Bagwell and Biggio. I remember watching a game last season when Bagwell had to make a throw to Biggio, and with Bagwells shoulder injury, even a simple toss was difficult. Biggio knew exactly what angle to stand at so Bagwell could make the throw (this was pointed out by the commentators), and how far Bagwell could throw. There's little things like that which make Bagwell + Biggio so much better than either one by himself.
     
  2. Refman

    Refman Member

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    I understand your thoughts...but...

    He doesn't quite have a SS type range.

    Loretta signed with San Diego.

    The other thing to keep in mind is that Biggio is having his body decimated by throwing it around at 2B...that is why he asked to experiment in the OF last year. Playing OF will greatly improve his longevity in the league.
     
  3. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    Maybe a move to the outfield will rejuvinate Biggio and then he could be an all-star at 3 positions. Probably not, but I'll take an improved outfielder with a return of his bat and stolen bases.:D
     
  4. Another Brother

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    I felt sorry for Bigg at times last year, if he's ready for the challenge then I'm all for it.
     
  5. mateo

    mateo Member

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    I'll have to go with Bogey's view....it may not happen, but if Biggio became an All Star in three positions it would be amazing.
     
  6. Htownhero

    Htownhero Member

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    Pardon the questions from an outsider, but why would Biggio have a problem switching positions? He did move to 2nd from catcher for the benefit of the team right? Or was he the one that wanted to go to 2nd because he thought that was where he belonged?
     
  7. Buck Turgidson

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    It was management's idea, from what I remember. They wanted to save the wear & tear on his legs, and Biggio agreed & embraced the move to 2B.
     
  8. Jared Novak

    Jared Novak Member
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    Simple.

    Because being an elder statesman on a team in which you have played your entire career for, split blood, sweat and tears, for and a team that you helped put on the map, then its going to hurt when that organization brings in a guy to take your spot.

    Luckily for the Astros and us the fans, Biggio is a class-act. I'm pretty sure deep down he is disappointed, but he knows that this move can help him win that elusive ring.
     
  9. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    If players are selfish (I am NOT saying that Biggio is), they feel that they have earned the right to continue at their position especially after being a loyal soldier. Although Biggio has a fat contract, he could have received more money when he was a free agent a few years ago, but elected to stay with Houston. In addition, Biggio is on the cusp of the Hall of Fame. A couple more good seasons at 2B may make him a lock, however, if the OF switch does not work, then he will end his career on a mediocre note.

    If healthy, Biggio is certainly an improvement in LF over Ward and probably would get to more balls in CF than Berkman, although Berkman has the better arm. In a perfect world, Biggio would make the transistion to LF much the same that Chipper Jones did last year.

    If the Astros maintain the status quo, then you would have to ask which is the better lineup:

    3B - Blum, 2B - Kent, LF - Biggio, CF - Berkman
    3B - Kent, 2B - Biggio, LF - Ward, CF - Berkman

    Defensively the first is clearly better. Kent would have to adapt to 3B almost as much as Biggio would have to adapt to LF.

    Offensively, the second lineup should be better although Kent's offense could suffer if he is having to adapt to a new position. Ward should be a better offensive threat than Blum, although last year, most of us would probably rather have seen Blum at the plate than Ward.
     
  10. rezdawg

    rezdawg Member

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    It could seriously hurt his Hall of Fame hopes.
     
  11. dc sports

    dc sports Member

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    Once he gets used to the idea, I think he'll embrace it. SS and 2nd base are the two positions where you get a lot of wear and tear, and reaction speed is crucial. He's not the same 2nd baseman he used to be, and by moving him to the outfield, he will have the opportunity to continue to excel.

    I think it will be a lot easier for him to make the move under Jimmy Williams. I like the fact that Williams has worked to show the players the importance of flexibility, that he has confidence in them, and the value of being able to play a variety of positions.

    Under 'previous management' a player played a position, and there was a backup, and you did not vary from that plan. Williams moved players to all positions, played everyone, and demonstrated confidence in his players. I think he'll work to make it much easier on Biggio.
     
  12. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    'Previous management' won 4 division titles in 5 years. Of the regular players, the only player that really played different positions last year (for the most part) was Vizcaino. 90% of Blum's at bats were at 3B, Lugo played nothing other than SS, Biggio had one game in the OF the rest at 2B, Bagwell was always at 1B, Ward didn't play anything other than LF, Hidalgo didn't play anything other than RF. Some of the mentioned players may have played an inning or two in extra inning games at different positions but as starters, they were tied to their positions.
     
  13. BobFinn*

    BobFinn* Member

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    For those of you that don't know, Biggio played 50 games as the Astros centerfielder in 1990 with 4 errors. I could see him play left field with no problem.

    It would make more sense to put Kent at 3rd and leave Bidge at 2nd.
     
  14. Mr. Mooch

    Mr. Mooch Contributing Member

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    Two Words: GEOFF BLUM

    also hes got the same last name as me:D
     
  15. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Craig Biggio does not have the offensive numbers to be occupying a spot in a good outfield. He hit .253 last year with 15 homers and 58 RBIs. Outfielders should be producing much, much more than those figures. Our outfield production last season was pitiful, though, so I'm guessing Hunsicker is banking on Biggio producing better numbers next season. Hidalgo hit .235 with 15 homers and only 48 RBIs. Ward did better with .278, 12 homers, and 72 RBIs.

    Biggio has really lost a step in terms of speed over the years, but I would say he's still faster than Hidalgo and definitely faster than Daryle Ward (unless Daryle's timed on his way to the Golden Corral buffet line for seconds...).

    Remember when we had a logjam with too many "good" outfielders? Alou, D Bell, an up and coming Hidalgo, Roger Cedeno, and and up and coming Ward? Now our best option is two first baseman (Ward & Berkman) and a former catcher (Biggio).
     
  16. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    ...and more perhaps more rare, he has the same first name as me...
     
  17. Buck Turgidson

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    I have no doubt that he can play a much more than adequite LF, center I'm not so sure, and it's not the end of the world if Berk is in CF next year.

    My prior suggestion of playing Kent at 3rd aside, I trust management's judgement much moreso than my limited observation. Gerry was asked about Kent at 3rd this morning, and said, "No offense to Jeff, but he's just not a very good 3rd baseman. We tried it in NY a few years ago, and it just didn't work out well. So that's not really an option for us now."
     
  18. Buck Turgidson

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    All the 'Stros need to do is trade for a SS (Jeff Blauser still play? Can Jeff Reboulet play short?) and then we can see the first all "Jeff" infield in MLB history.
     
  19. BobFinn*

    BobFinn* Member

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    109 games at 3rd, 10 HR's, 52 RBI's

    or Kent, 152 games-37 HR's and 107 RBI's
     
  20. DVauthrin

    DVauthrin Member

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    Finn,

    Those numbers you posted don't tell the truth about our 3b platoon.

    The 3rd baseman we used led the NL with an OPS of .804. Biggio, as much as I love him, was in the 700's.

    So I completely understand the decision.

    And good god people stop arguing about such a petty issue, the Astros made a tremendous signing, one that makes them legit WS contenders and we are debating where Biggio will play.

    This decision deserves praise, not skepticism. I, for, one am f****** thrilled we signed the best free agent on the market, and a premier slugger at a non power position to boot.

    So should you.
     

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