After seeing the Pistons win with the philosophy that Gundy wants to impose on the Rockets...that is play tough D, play team ball, reduce turnovers and even if you win ugly, just win...I am now even more sure than before that the Rockets are on track to contend big time in the near future. I know some will say that Brown is a much better offensive coach than Gundy. But I counter and say that Gundy is a much better defensive coach than Brown and Gundy has better offensive weapons that will make a difference if the team buys into the philosophy. Yep. I know the Gundy haters will find a way to hate. But if you saw the Pistons, then you know that rebounding, tough defense and an OK offense will win you rings. You don't need McGrady. You don't need to trade Francis. You need to get tough. A tough PF who will rebound and do the dirty work will be just what the Rocks need. Francis, Mobley, Jackson and Yao are way better offensive players than what the Pistons have. We just need to get dirty. We need to get tough. We need to continue to play hellified D. We need to play smart. I believe. Do you still doubt?
Yes, I have doubts. One of my chiefest concerns after watching the playoffs is how are we gonna get Yao's stamina up? If he poops out in February, how in the world are we going to be able to increase his stamina enough to perform effectively in June? And we have to get a strong, active PF that can defend, bang, dominate the boards, and never wears out. Otherwise, even if we get to the finals the Pistons will chew us up and spit us out. Okafor is looking better and better to me right now. Steve has heart. We need a big man with heart to play with Yao.
Or Rasheed Wallace. Either Wallace paired with Yao would drastically improve the D. Of course there isn't any way in hell that the Pistons would let either Wallace go.
Give Yao 10 - 15 game rest. Each year Shaq fakes injury to miss about 15 games, which helps to keep him fresh in the playoff. Wear and tear is always an issue for big man.
LOL. Problem is, on this team, if we give Yao 10 to 15 games off...........we don't even get in the playoffs.
No offense, but JVG is not in Larry Brown's class...yet. Brown is arguably the best mind in basketball and has (arguably) been for quite a while now. JVG has a ways to go to match Brown's skill level as a coach. And having the same basic philosophy for overall play is very different from having the same coaching style and they are different without question, particularly on the offensive end. This doesn't mean I don't think the Rockets can win a championship under JVG. It just means that the comparison to LB is tenuous at best.
You know, I don't think this series changes anything and I know alot of people here will disagree with me. I think there's going to be a major shift in the conventional wisdom regarding how to win a championship and I think it is completely unwarranted. I'm holding firm to my belief that you win the championship with the best player in the league. Sure there will be some anomalies, there always are. Just because the Pistons won this year with no superstar changes nothing. Maybe twice has this been done in the last 25 years. History is overwhelmingly on the side of the orthodox superstar championship model. Alot of people are going to come out and try to challenge this with the latest evidence, but the facts point heavily against them. 1) It is a testament to the standard superstar championship model that the Lakers advanced to the NBA Finals. The Lakers had NO PLAYERS on their team. They had Shaq and Kobe and that's it. They were playing 2 on 12. This Laker team didn't even have role players - they had NOTHING. Yet they advanced to the NBA Finals, overcoming more well rounded teams. They have enjoyed more success in the last 5 years than any team in the sport. 3 championships and 4 Finals appearances. I really hope the anti-McGrady crowd doesn't try to use this Pistons championship as fuel to their fire because that would be embarassing. The fact remains that 29 teams in the NBA right now would trade their success over the past 5 years for what the Lakers have enjoyed the last 5 years. Again, they made the Finals this year. 2) Noone argued that you win a championship with 2 superstars and complete trash. That is what the Lakers this season had. Trash. And they made it to the Finals. I take the team with two superstars and 3 or 4 good role players ANY DAY over the well rounded deep team (ie: Pistons). I cannot drive the point home hard enough just how bad this Lakers supporting cast was. Gary Payton and Karl Malone were consistently the worse players on the court. Slava? Rick Fox? George? LOL. It's not about getting the talented role players like Tayshaun Prince, Ben Wallace, Hamilton, and Billups. Had the Lakers had Ginobili, Bowen, and Parker or Horry, Fox (young Fox), and Fisher or Cassell, Horry, and Maxwell, I guarantee you this would have been a different series. Again, noone said having simply two superstars wins you the championship. This Laker team had NOTHING. And they still made the Finals. 3) As far as the Rockets in particular, I must completely disagree with the comparison. This changes nothing. This Pistons team was mature and took care of the ball. They could run fastbreaks. They didn't wilt under the pressure. Again, they protected the ball. Steve Francis has to go.
The premise is good, and yes JVG is trying to do similar things, but the problem is that we don't have what the Pistons have : 1) Yao Ming isn't going to run the break like a Ben Wallace all night long and drive Shaq to exhaustion trying to keep up. 2) Their guards are better at protecting the ball and thinking and moving without the ball than anything we have. 3) When they run, it was beautiful to watch the Lakers absolutely befuddled as to whom to guard. When we run it was tragic to watch as 1 of the defenders guarded 3 of our guys successfully. 4) I think ultimately our defense could be as good as the Pistons defense given time. Given better defensive players, I think it could be even better especially with a Yao Ming. The problem is, they work as a team, a unit, one body, on both ends of the court. The Pistons were a machine. The Rockets are a few cogs short of that. 5) They had so many weapons that stepped up and were athletic and ran like gazelles. We don't have that. If you shut Steve and Yao down, you may be doing pretty well because nobody else is going to carry the team. On the Pistons, if you shut Rip down, there's Sheed. If you shut Sheed down, there's Billups. If you shut Billups down, there's Prince. And in this series, there was no way you were going to shut all of those guys down - they were all "on" when they needed to be. The Rockets are headed in the right direction. I still disagree with people that hate the 80-90 point games. I think if we were winning those games, we'd still be enjoying it. Watching the Lakers get throttled by great D and have their "D" befuddled by great O was pure joy, whether it resulted in a 70, 80, 90, or 100 point game.
Agreed. But don't forget which cloth JVG is cut from!!!! Ans: Pat Riley Over his shorter coaching career relative to Brown, JVG has been able to demostrate an ability to get more out of average players and essentially turning them into overachievers. With the Rox, I honestly think JVG is inheriting a team that has a similar makeup in talent as the Lakers of Showtime under Riley. However, unlike Showtime, we're missing that third weapon. If we go the route of Francis and Yao as our anchors much like the Lakers of present (or maybe I should say of yesterday after their loss to Detroit) then we're going to need stronger role players at the 4 and 2 for JVG to succeed. IMHO, JVG overachieved in his first season with respect to getting the most out of his players INCLUDING SF. Getting SF to sacrifice and change his game was a huge plus for the long-term fortunes of this franchise. Brown is a good coach, no doubt about it, but until the Pistons, he never had quite the right player personnel to win it all. The Pacers of old might have been the lone exception but unfortunately for Brown, he had to butt heads with Jordan. If we fail to reach the championships within the next three years, I'd be very surprised if it were the result of bad coaching on the part of JVG rather than bad player selection. IMHO, JVG is the second coming of Pat Riley. Mark my word!!! We WILL see the NBA Finals soon! theSAGE
hi DoD, IMHO, Detroit isn't the "championship prototype." Even though the Pistons won, for all due purposes of replicable success, I still think teams centered around the 1 and 5 are the model for consistent success. Jordan made some heads turn in changing the emphasis at drafts back to finding the "next best guard" but history has shown that great teams are anchored at the 1 and 5 - particularly the 5. Thus, although you're correct in all your observations, my question would simply be, why do we have to be like Detroit to win? Fact is, the Rox will develop their own identity, as they began to establish late in the season in terms of defense. And much like the Lakers, a lot of their success will depend upon on well they assert that identity on the floor. Detroit was smart in playing to their strengths, and the Lakers were stupid enough to follow. Yet, objectively-speaking, even Detroit has its fair share of shortcomings, not least of which is a mediocre post game. When Yao has success at the post, other heads turn and wonder the opposite question: "how come we don't have a legit post presence like that?" When we dictate the tempo and play a controlled game opposing fans will ask: "how come we dont' have that sort of half-court offense?" The key is playing to our strengths and that's why SF is far more important to this team as our PG than Yao. SF is our floor general and if he fails to play to our strengths, we will lose. Although sheer athleticism is good (e.g. Marion), we don't need to run like gazelles to win. In fact, that's probably the last thing we want if Yao is the center of our offense. We just need people who understand the JVG system and plays within the system. Bottom line: we need to find the right mix of supporting players. theSAGE
So the problem is that Mobley is not as good as Big Game James? Yeah, we got the Magic and Kareem slots taken care of, it is those 0.54 extra points per game that Cat just doesn't provide that are keeping this team from being championship caliber.
And that points out to getting rid of Francis. As for role players, we already have our third option, Cat. Not to mention, JJ and Boki. That's a solid start towards achieving the "right mix of supporting players".
hi SM, I'm not implying that Cat is who's holding us back. (Although I wouldn't mind seeing him in a package trade for T-mac.) But I definitely believe we're missing that third player to anchor us down - not at the 2 or the 3 but rather at the 4 power forward spot. The Laker's model of success is duplicable and we have the best pieces to do it. True, SF isn't playing the 2, and even if he did, he wouldn't be Kobe and True enough, Yao isn't quite Shaq yet. But we're getting there. And that's the mold I see us evolving into more so than either a Detroit, an Indiana, or even a San Antonio for that matter. Even the might Lakers needed a third figure to support the big two. In the past it was Horry, this season, it had been Malone. We need a third major support figure too. JJ does wonders but he doesn't fit the bill. My guess is that with JVG focusing our offense on Yao, we need more front line support insofar as big bodies who bang and grab rebounds - an enforcer type. We don't need to go 5 strong like Detroit to win. 3 is plenty but we need that 3rd who provides offensive bounding toughness. The Worthy/Magic/Kareem trio was great in its own right. But I can't help thinking that it was also unfair that Magic was among the first of a new breed of "oversized" guards who would back down undersized opponents in the paint. SF has his own advantages but to balance out our potential "trio," we're gonna need some more frontline size and not necessarily shooting talent at the 2 or the 3. theSAGE
I believe. I believe in Van Gundy, I believe in Yao and I believe we're not going anywhere until Francis is traded.
Good points, thacabbage. You could add that the Lakers lost mainly because they didn't play to their strength, which is Shaq. Kobe can feel Jordanesque all he wants, but just check out his numbers. He was almost mediocre, especially his FGA. The argument that superstars win championships is still a fact. If Shaq and Kobe had played like superstars, they would have won.
DOD, You said everything I wanted to say. Watching the Pistons win only reinforces what a loser we have in Steve Francis
I doubt it: Pistons' guards CAN and DID shoot much better than Rockets, and that's why they can gain from P&R, and spread Fakers' defense. Once Rox's oppenonts shrink their defense range, Rox's fate lays on JJ's hands. Another major defect is that we have two 1/2 power forwards, which will curtail the advantage of the mismatch on 5.
