Let's see... still no Bin Laden... the stock market tanking... no answers on questionable stock deals... It's nice to see our hard working president take a well earned vacation. <i>Bush to chill on summer break By THOMAS M. DeFRANK DAILY NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF WASHINGTON - Economic jitters won't keep a what-me-worry President Bush from fleeing the capital's horrendous humidity for nearly a month long summer vacation. As he did last year, Bush plans to spend most of August at his Crawford, Tex., ranch. He also has scheduled a weekend trip to the Bush ancestral compound at Kennebunkport, Maine, before heading to his 1,583-acre Prairie Chapel Ranch spread. A passionate fisherman, Bush did so well angling for striped bass at Kennebunkport over the Fourth of July weekend that he has laid on a brief return visit. While there, he'll also headline a fund-raiser for Sen. Susan Collins (R-Maine). Somewhat defensive aides pointed out that he'll sprinkle his leisure time with side trips to dampen Democratic whispers he's fishing while Wall Street burns.</i> The full article http://www.nydailynews.com/news/wn_report/story/4246p-3891c.html
what? so Bush made Enron, Worldcom, etc lie to the public about their accounting practices? He created this whole Wall Street problem... your right? Did you even consider anything that Allen Greenspan said about the economy recovering? The investors are just jittery and that isn't anything Bush can fix overnight. Inflation is low and unemployment is falling also, he can't do anything more than sign the bill coming up on punishing corporate america for all of their lies. I think he will sign it. Wall Street will continue to burn and there isn't anything more Bush can do about it. This just seems like the last of the internet/dotcom bubble bursting. They did it to themselves. Bin Laden may be dead, we have not seen any evidence he is alive and many seem to think he is dead. Killing Bin Laden was never our central focus (publicly). He will be found - PATIENCE Questionable stock deals? Who doesn't have questionable stock deals? Post some details, not just a rumor... He deserves a vacation - there have only been a handful of US Presidents who have had to deal with the problems that he has in his first 18 months in office. Give him a break. I am not saying he is perfect by any means, but he is doing a good job.
"It's amazing I won. I was running against peace, prosperity and incumbency." George W. Bush, June 14, 2001 speaking to Swedish Prime Minister Goran Perrson, unaware that a live television camera was still rolling. yep, that's our prez...
questionable stock deals... HOW MANY TIMES DOES THAT DEAL HAVE TO BE INVESTIGATED BY THE SEC? HOW MANY TIMES DOES THE SEC HAVE TO CLEAR HIM OF ANY WRONGDOING BEFORE YOU'LL BE SATISFIED? bin laden... EXCUSE ME....BUT HOW MANY TERRORIST STRIKES HAVE THERE BEEN ON THE UNITED STATES SINCE SEPTEMBER 11TH? WHERE IS BIN LADEN? I HAVE A HARD TIME BELIEVING A MAN WITH HIS EGO WOULD REMAIN SILENT IF HE WERE STILL ALIVE. THE GUY IS EITHER DEAD OR DYING. BUT THIS ADMINISTRATION ALONE WILL NOT SEE THE END OF TERRORISM...WE WON'T SEE THAT IN OUR LIFETIMES...IT PREEXISTED US AND IT WILL BE HERE AFTER WE'RE GONE...YOU CAN BLAME THAT ON ANY NUMBER OF US PRESIDENTS IF YOU LIKE. stock market AGAIN..I HAVE NO IDEA HOW THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES ACTUALLY AFFECTS THE STOCK MARKET. THESE ARE EASY STATEMENTS TO MAKE BUT THE CORRELATION IS WEAK AT BEST All Presidents take vacations....there is never a good time for the leader of the free world to take a vacation. They all need one, nevertheless. I assure you...he won't be turning off his cell phone on this trip! By the way...was that an editorial piece?? Just wondering...because if you guys needed any idea as to where all us wacky conservatives get the notion of a liberal press, you might wanna check out that last sentence mark clipped and pasted on this board. yeah...i'd say that's a fair and objective statement
What? What! I said it was a well earned vacation! W knows how to use a cell phone? boy, bush lovers sure have thin skins... BTW the market's down 306 points.
Only the most novice of political followers would attribute 1-day's or even 1-year's stock market movement to a president's actions. So, so many things dictate stock prices that are well outside of the president's sphere of influence. One of the largest determinants of economic performance is monetary policy, something which is set by the INDEPENDENT Federal Reserve Board through their interest rate movements. How could Bush have controlled Enron and Worldcom's accounting practices, most of which were instituted before he even became president? what a joke
Of course he didn't make them lie, but he and his party and his cabinet are on record consistently supporting loosening regulations on corporations. The Republican party is the party of choice for corporate America and it's CEO's for a reason. When a company like Enron is successful, they take credit for inventive, bold free enterprise. When they lie and cheat and are able to do so due to loose regulations, they should take a hit. And they are. Have you seen what Americans who continue to support Bush on terrorism are saying about his performance on the economy? Check the latest polls. Bush's tax cut, which gave the average American around $300, wiped out the surplus. Why doesn't anyone talk about this anymore? After years of popular support for the Repubs as the party most likely to get rid of the deficit, it's finally eliminated by a Democrat and turned into a hefty surplus. One year of Republican rule, and a $300 rebate later, we're in deficit again. And seniors who voted for Bush aren't going to laughing about Gore's 'lockbox' anymore -- Social Security's in serious danger, too. Right. Killing Bin Laden's not the focus. The focus is on fighting terrorism everywhere and the buzz word is 'patience.' That way this can last forever and anyone who criticizes Bush on anything can be labelled unpatriotic. Any time Bush was asked about military actions during the debates he said it was important to have a clear exit strategy. Turns out clear exit strategies aren't so good for his approval rating. Any time he's not dealing with the never ending war on terrorism his poll numbers go down. He learned well from his father's mistake. Sr. rode 90% approval ratings until the Gulf War was over. That's when Americans turned their attention to how bad things were at home. It's happening again. Bush's own people say Bin Laden may never be found and terrorism will continue to exist as long as there are humans on this earth. First off, the average American doesn't have questionable stock deals. Only the wealthiest Americans are even in a position to have questionable stock deals. Remember, this is guy who ran on "character" and to restore "dignity" to the White House. A lot of people just lost their entire savings on these kinds of deals. It's not a small deal and the people whose lives were ruined by such deals wouldn't think your comments were funny. Second, for one, Carter didn't have questionable stock deals. He was our real "character" president. For those of you who think he was a terrible president, okay. I guess character doesn't mean as much as you thought it did. As for this being a rumor, unsupported by details, have you read a newspaper in the last month? If you really want them, I'll go find you a hundred links, from every major newspaper detailing Bush and Cheney's alleged misdealings. Or you could just read a newspaper yourself. No president has ever had to deal with the specific problems any other president dealt with in their first 18 months. And this again presumes that Gore would have done any less on the terrorism stuff. Which is ridiculous given that Gore's been a recognized expert on foreign affairs for decades and Bush had never been out of the country until he was running for president. He has been GIVEN a break. Since 9/11 he has not been scrutinized on anything that was not related to terrorism. And, in fact, it's been considered unpatriotic to question him on anything. That's the biggest break and most outrageous honeymoon any president's ever been afforded. His tax cut, his budget and his cozyness with corporate America has caused gigantic problems for our country. He was appointed president by the Supreme Court to deal with these problems. If I'm remembering right, this is his second month long (or so) vacation since he was appointed. Anybody else out there get that kind of vacation time? Anybody else out there have a job with more important problems or where their absence will be as deeply felt? Of course, personally, I'm glad he's going on vacation. He can't do quite as much damage from Crawford. RockHEAD, yes he ran against peace and prosperity. His next opponent will run against war and recession. DallasThomas, if you think that's funny go to Slate and read the Complete Bushisms.
Oh, well if Michael Moore published it, it must be true. He is completely unbiased with no personal agenda to promote.
It was widely reported and, anyway, it's not the least bit controversial. He meant to say he was running against an incumbent in a time of peace and prosperity. It's just a slip of tongue. W's had far worse. In fact, the most egregious thing he said in that quote was that he won, since he didn't. (Oops. Did I just bring THAT up again?)
Yeah, you're absolutely right Batman. I'm sure you've gathered more information on the election than did the Supreme Court. We should have just allowed you to make that decision instead of them. Bush won more electoral votes. That is what determines the winner. Had the popular vote determined the winner, Bush would have campaigned differently (i.e. more time in Texas). Sounds like sour grapes to me. sigh
Only the most novice of political followers would believe that bush actually had any decision on how he would campaign.
Let's say for the sake of argument that Bush didn't do anything 'wrong' with his sale of Harken shares. He did take loans below the prime rate from the company, which only recently, has been made illegal, to avoid some of the problems the market is currently going through. Anyway here's a link to a story in the NY Press. I'll copy part of the article for review here. http://www.nypress.com/15/29/news&columns/beans.cfm It's amazing that he gets money thrown at him despite not being able to run a company successfully. Stuff he did then may not have been illegal, but it is now, and certainly was questionable ethically. While the problems and lies and accounting frauds that so many of the companies have committed occurred without Bush directly causing it, Bush hasn't exactly been quick to act. He made one speech which promised nothing that bills already put forward hadn't already mentioned. He's soft on the problem of corruption, and people don't buy despite the low prices of stocks because nobody trusts the figures that these companies are putting forward. Until things get straightened out and trust is restored then the market won't hit bottom.
Batman-- I'm afraid we differ wildly on these issues. I'll take them one at a time. Regulations have been loose for a long time now. What regs would you want and would they pass Constitutional muster? A lack of regulation did not cause this. These companies broke already existing law. Having a new law or reg would not make the acts any more illegal. In response to what has happened, Bush intends to make the criminal penalties stiffer when these laws are broken. Surplus means they took too much of OUR hard earned money. Why shouldn't they give it to us? Dammit it was earned by us, not the governement. That is the ideological difference between Republicans and Democrats. The Dems in power believe that all money belongs to Washington and they let us keep what they see fit. And I don't exactly see how putting more money in the hands of the people is bad for the economy. I don't know about you, but I am tired of working from January to April just to pay my taxes. BTW, Social Security has been in trouble for a long time. It is a flawed system given the aging populace. Oh geez. Batman, you are better than that bro. I have come to expect more from your arguments. An exit startegy is incredibly important to Bush when the enemy is a defined country. He had no idea that this was going to happen...none of us did. Given that there are so many countries in the Middle East that sponsor terorism, the only clear exit startegy is to nuke the whole area. I don't think that anybody wants that. Instead we have to undertake a process. I certainly hope that nobody really wants the alternative. I don't think any of us could handle this much better. And he has done just that. He is prosecuting the war on terror and trying to deal with the economy rather than using an intern as a humidor. Bush's stock deal has been investigated by the SEC on more than one occasion and he was cleared of any wrongdoing. He played within the rules. That those rules were favorable to him may frustrate you, but that does not change the color of legal litmus paper. Then again when he is cleared again maybe the Dems can ship him to Salem and call him a witch. I suppose that corporations have never given large sums of money to Democrats. Please... Also I guess that corporations are SO much worse than the big labor unions (who have been tied to organized crime) that the Dems curl up with at night. I don't mean to be inflammatory, but it seems that you are buying into the hype here. The fact is that it is easy to play armchair QB when we don't have to try to get things through Congress and worry about the Constitution. Then again we could bypass Congress and sign an Executive Order...just like Clinton did. For the record Batman, I really do not mean any disrespect here. I just care about these issues deeply and feel I must give the other side.
Just to touch on this one issue... One regulation that would pass constitutional muster and in fact is now going to be enacted is one that seperates the consulting and accounting procedures. It's too bad when Clinton's SEC chief proposed that idea during the Clinton presidency it was rejected. Some regulations were changed during the Clinton era. Congress passed a law which made it much more easy for corporations to get away the kinds of fraudulent procedures they've been doing. At that time President Clinton vetoed the law. He also made a quote which I have to paraphrase. He said that our Market was so strong because of people's belief that it is honest or perceived to be honest in it's dealings and that the law passed by Congress could change all that. That veto was overridden and in hindsight it looks like Clinton was right. So some regulations were changed only as recently as the Clinton administration. I don't even think it's neccessarily a Republican or Democratic thing, since at least a fair number of dems had to vote along with the republicans to override the veto. Again Bush isn't making the criminal penalties stiffer, that was already done by Congress. When Bush spoke about the troubles he didn't propose or bring up one new idea.
