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Yao's role in the "new" offense

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Glendelicious, Jan 3, 2005.

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  1. Glendelicious

    Glendelicious Member

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    Hey there,

    I haven't been able to see the Rockets enough this year (in NYC) so I'm wondering how Yao looks on the court when the Rockets are running and pushing the ball. Is he able to keep up at all? Is it a 4 man offense during these stretches? If Yao improves his shot blocking/altering and hi defensive rebounding, he'll be a big time fast break starter with wonderful passing ability, but I wonder how effective he'll be as a scorer in this offense. Perhaps only get involved as a scorer in the half court sets; but can he become a dominant player in this offense, with less opportunities? Are there still enough ball handling chances for him to dominate a game?
     
  2. aeroman10

    aeroman10 Member

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    Kind of hard to tell....He had the flu and was out during the Bucks game and yesterday only played 20 something minutes. Otherwise he looks fine and keep up without any problems..
     
  3. Fegwu

    Fegwu Member

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    Yao is a great runner if his stamina lets him. He has suprised many big men this season with how well he runs the floor.

    His bane again is the stamina issue which I must confess has greatly improved thanks in large part to the great offseason program JVG put him on.

    But many times our fast break is usually a 4 man game especially late in the first and 3rd quarters. Also his confidence and running of the floor suffers when he is having a bad game - by now you must have known that Yao criticizes himself more than anyone and he lives way too long with his bad plays.

    In all he still remains our 1B option on offense. He still means so much to this team on both ends. Coach Van Chancellor put best - "we want Yao to do more but who can really complain with a durable center who puts in a 19-9 effort every night"?
     
  4. vizier

    vizier Member

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    Bill Simmons from behind the bench


    HOUSTON
    The Clips lost this one in OT, thanks to a bogus foul call on Bobby Simmons on the final possession of regulation. The Rockets cleared out for T-Mac (an ugly 8-for-23), he drove left into Bobby's shoulder, then hopped backwards for an ugly jumper ... and the refs called the foul on Bobby. This play tells you everything you would ever want know about the Clippers -- they don't get an obvious non-call at home on a deciding play.

    I spent most of the game bemoaning the demise of Yao Ming, who played 30 minutes, notched 10 points and 8 rebounds, turned the ball over six times and ended up fouling out. It's not like Yao was going against Hakeem in his prime here -- the Clips checked him with Chris Wilcox (young power forward playing out of position), Zeljko Rebraca (brittle foreigner with no discernible skills) and Mikki Moore (six teams in the last four years). So what happened to this guy? Wasn't he supposed to become the Chinese Bill Walton?

    On "NBA Fast Break" last week, Legler, Anthony and Stephen A. discussed Yao's relative funk -- statistically, he isn't any better than last season, which makes no sense -- and collectively decided that Yao wasn't aggressive enough to become a dominant center. Stephen A. also pointed the finger at Jeff Van Gundy, staring into the camera like an assassin, then screaming, "JEFF VAN GUNDY DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO COACH OFFENSE!" And yes, both of those points are part of the problem. During that Clippers game, the Rockets pounded the ball down low like Yao was Zydrunas Ilguaskas, only he's not that type of player -- shove him around and he'll eventually settle for fall-aways and jump hooks. Which he did. I'm not sure how having a 7-foot-6 guy falling away from the basket helps anybody except the other team.

    Still, I blame the Rockets for surrounding him with the wrong players. In three seasons, they haven't had a single point who could throw Yao an entry pass, plus they haven't had a single shooter who could consistently make threes (and prevent teams from collapsing on Yao). This current team features the worst point guards in the league (although Bobby Sura just came back); three undersized rebounders (none of whom would ever be confused with Maurice Lucas); and only one reliable shooter (T-Mac, who thrives with one-on-one stuff). I like T-Mac, but he isn't a sophisticated enough offensive player to play with someone like Yao. None of these guys are. It's a shame. It's like watching one of the guys from Phish playing in Ashlee Simpson's band.

    In a perfect world, Yao would be playing on the high post like Walton did, finding cutters (he's an exceptional passer, although you would never know on this team) and draining open 15-footers. Just look at the way Sacramento uses Brad Miller right now. In fact, if you switched Yao with Brad Miller tomorrow, Yao's career would take off and we wouldn't even be having this discussion. I'm just worried that he's starting to get discouraged -- not only is Yao losing confidence, but guys are going out of their way to dunk on him now. In 18 games, he only has 22 blocks and 149 rebounds. The guy is 7-foot-6!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! After watching Yao's body language during that Clippers game, I would be astounded if he's still playing for the Rockets in three years.

    One other Rockets note: I always liked T-Mac ... it's a shame how his game atrophied playing with crummy teammates in Orlando. At 6-foot-8, with his athletic ability, he should have evolved into a cross between Scottie Pippen and Doctor J. But since those Magic teams were so dependent on his scoring, the other parts of his game went to mush -- now he only seems to light up when he's getting a ton of shots, like last week's Dallas game, when he came alive with 48 points (on 36 shots), 9 rebounds and 9 assists in a fantastic shootout with Nowitzki. Van Gundy isn't a moron. Eventually, he will realize that T-Mac's offense gives him the best chance to win every night. Which means Yao will be standing around watching him like everyone else. What a waste.
     
  5. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    Thing about Yao is, like i said in another thread, he needs to find ways to get the EASY points. Post up deeeeep down low a la Shaq. Once he gets the pass, just turn and *boom* slam dunk. His lower body is strong enough to do that.

    I think he also tends to try and be more cerebral to his approach to basketball. Like he has to do everything so systematically. Sometimes he just needs to stop thinking and just 'throw it down, big man'.

    And Simmons is right. If opponents just get physical with him, he retreats. First player that comes to mind is Vince Carter. Was a great player, then when people realize that if you just push him a little, he'll back off. Same thing is happening to Yao.
     
  6. langal

    langal Member

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    That Bill Simmons article is pretty old (after 18 games?).

    Yao has definitely stepped it up a notch in December.

    He has had a bad week with the flu (heard he was in the hospital), but he seems to have turned a corner.
     
  7. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    That's a great way to put it. If the running does not happen, Yao is the man in the half court set. He still draws the double teams, and that's all that really matters IMO...
     
  8. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    I don't think the lower body affects acquiring player position as much as it affects maintaining player position. Once Yao gets position, it's tough to move him. Look at any paperweight where the base is heavy but the top is light. That is Yao. Shaq has a proportioned body which enables him to easily get position since he is so strong up top as well as down low. Look at Hakeem. Hakeem was similar to Shaq except Hakeem was slimmer.

    If Yao was to decrease his lower body muscle while substantially increase his upper body muscle, he has a chance to dominate in the low post. Yao grimaces every single time he has guys pushing an elbow in his back. That's due in part to his back muscles not being developed enough like Shaq. This is why Shaq is the only NBA player to play solely the low post game and be successful. Shaq doesn't need to face the basket because he can handle the physical aggression. Yao cannot.

    As far as Yao's role in the new offense goes, I liken every team to a puzzle. I see the Rockets already have a lot of pieces of the uptempo offense puzzle. Yao is not a big piece of that puzzle. I've already suggested that the Rockets would be best served completing the transformation from the slowdown halfcourt team to an uptempo offense team. The Rockets are doing exactly that. It's up to Yao whether or not this trend can be reversed in his favor. If Yao doesn't step it up, Yao will find himself getting equal minutes as Dikembe as the playoffs roll around.

    I wouldn't be surprised to see Yao's stats go down and breach last year's stats as the games go on.
     
  9. RikQuik

    RikQuik Member

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    As it looks now, the team may be transitioning from a half-court game to being a running team. A running team suits Yao a lot better. He is not 340lbs of muscle that can grind over you all day.

    If the team keeps running, then the easy baskets, the picks, and the low entry passes will come. We just don't have the players to run a grind-it-out offence. With the last couple of trades, we might actually have the players to be the Sonics of the middle 90's....
     
  10. Rivaldo2181

    Rivaldo2181 Member

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    I love the way the Rockets have been playing but to call it a "new" offense is premature. We saw the Rox push it and T-Mac go off for 48 against Dallas only to return to ugly, grind it out ball. If they can be consistent on offense for the next 10 games or so and beat some better competition than we can be optimistic.
     
  11. vizier

    vizier Member

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    i hate to bring this up again but if that is the direction rox is going to take than why ship yao out while he still has some value? maybe rox is already considering this?

     
  12. mogrod

    mogrod Member

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    New Offense? Thier main offense and scheme is still a halfcourt system centered around either dumping it down to Yao or getting the ball to TMac coming off screens. They are running more because they are taking advantage of...

    a) better overall defense forcing long rebounds

    b) better defensive rebounding the last two weeks

    c) new players that bring better passing, energy and IQ

    Yao has gotten involved in this as well as he has run the floor getting either easy baskets by beating the other center down the court or quickly getting post position before the defense can set up.

    Basically, same offense but other faccets of thier game have improved to give them more chances and opportunity to run.
     
  13. beyao

    beyao Member

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    It remains to be seen how Yao will be affected by this new offense (if it indeed holds up)...looking at the past 3 games, Yao could have easily scored over 20 in each if he had received his normal playing time...in the Utah game, for example, there were hardly any plays called for him but he scored 15 in 23...prorate that to his normal 35 mins and he would have been over 20 points.

    He may account for less of the team's total points scored, but his actual average could very well increase. It will heavily rely upon Sura and Wesley's ability to get Yao the ball. So far, I like what I see from Wesley, but Sura seems to miss Yao quite a bit.

    For example, if the players are indeed free to speed up the offense when they see an opening, then why doesn't Sura pass the ball to Yao early in the offense when he has good deep position? Instead, he usually dribbles to Yao's side, sees that he's open and then dribble to the other side so that Yao can set a cross screen for someone else. Is this designed? If so it's a stupid play...JUST GET YAO THE DAMN BALL when he is open. McGrady does this quite a bit...posting up early in the clock, but Sura always seems willing to give him the ball...part of this, I believe is that Yao needs to ask for the ball vocally in addition to holding up his hands...
     
  14. Glendelicious

    Glendelicious Member

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    Fegwu, you remind me of one thing about Yao that makes him a rare commodity as a big man on the run, he's got great hands and catches the ball at top speed without difficulty. If he can get up the court as well as you say—they've barely jogged in the TNT/ESPN games I've seen—then indeed, only conditioning can stand in the way of him being a truly outstanding center.

    I've thought of the Brad Miller/Bill Walton example as well. What I would like to see is for the Rockets to use Yao in a variety of ways. There's no reason to insist that he's one type of player or another type. He is a fabulous passer and I'd as soon have his hands on the ball to control the offense as anyone else on the team. I'd like to see him spend time in the high post AND low post, and swinging out for pick and rolls all depending on the defense we're facing. What I don't like is when the opposition fronts in the post and three quarters go by without the Rockets making any adjustments.
     
  15. bejezuz

    bejezuz Member

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    Whoa now! We're not trying to become the Mavs or Phoenix here. Think more along the line of the Spurs, or the offense that the Heat are running.

    Break when you can, and when you can't, set up your half-court game.
     
  16. generalthade_03

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    Yao, don't ask for the ball from Sura, demand it! Sometimes I wish Yao's people would tell him time and time again that he is the franchise and start acting like one instead of the TIMID YAO!

    Just understand this Yao! Besides TMac, the whole damn team is expendable including Grumpy, enough said!
     
  17. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    Who here actually watched the Rockets when they were losing? It was heavily focused around Yao on the offense during that horrendous time period.

    1. Yao is making it hard to pass into the post since he isn't sealing off his man well now
    2. Yao is not getting that baseline spin move anymore because everyone in the NBA knows that move and can defend it i.e. Okur defended Yao by sealing off the baseline
    3. This part is the most important part. Yao's hook shot and fadeaway accuracy has markedly decreased. I'm not talking a few percentage points. I hesitate to say that it's close to 10%, but I think it is under 20% now. The percentage on his set shot jumper is close to zero. It might be at 5%.

    Add all this up, and this is why TMac is emboldened to tell everyone that this team must speed up to be successful. TMac's vision of Yao before the season began is not matched up with the actual Yao on the court this season.

    He'll play a decent role in the offense like Dikembe. The problem I see with that is that basically any big man that can walk and chew gum can come in and do the exact same thing. Stay under the basket and wait for TMac or the point guard to dish for an easy dunk.

    71% of Yao's baskets are assisted. That is even higher than Amare Stoudamire which is at 64%. This means he actually needs the guard penetration or else he gets no points. In comparison, Shaq is assisted on 54% of his baskets. Tim Duncan is assisted on 51% of his baskets. Yao needs to get this number into the 60s like Amare.

    If Yao is not satisfied with a role that even Dikembe can do as well, he needs to rededicate himself. Go into the basketball gym and work on his hook shot. Work on the footwork. Develop something other than the baseline spin move to get to the basket because that baseline spin move is too easily defensible. Make sure that fadeaway is clicking. Practice sealing off the defender to allow for an easier post entry pass.
     
  18. supermagichero

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    Charvo is a stubborn yao-hater. :) :D


     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    "Ivan make basket"
     
  20. Charvo

    Charvo Member

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    On a related note, ESPN is looking to embarrass Yao at every opportunity they can get. In the blowout loss at Milwaukee, the highlights ESPN showed were all over Yao getting punked by Zaza Pachulia. They particularly focused on Yao getting ripped for a rebound by Zaza. To put a cherry on the sundae, they had Yao getting dunked on by Desmond Mason as the top highlight of the night. These guys are slobbering over the potential of showing Amare bust Yao up with dunks. Basically everyone on the ESPN shootaround crew disses Yao with no mercy.

    I read somewhere that at a high school dunk contest that Yao was the #1 target that the high school kids wanted to dunk on. That's effed up.

    Yao needs to take on an attitude of me against the Western world. Everyone knows the Eastern hemisphere is rooting for him. Yao needs to focus on the Western Hemisphere.
     

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