Muslim woman to challenge ban on veil in driver's license photo June 27, 2002 Posted: 10:39 PM EDT (0239 GMT) ORLANDO, Florida. (AP) -- A judge ruled Thursday that a Muslim woman can pursue her legal fight to wear a veil for a driver's license photo, despite objections from the state that it jeopardizes public safety. Judge Ted Coleman denied a state motion to dismiss a lawsuit brought by Sultaana Freeman, whose driver's license was revoked when she refused to replace her photograph with one showing her face unveiled. Freeman, 34, is suing to get her license back with a photo that hides most of her face, except her eyes, behind a veil known as a niqab. Freeman wears the veil for religious reasons. When Freeman applied for a Florida license last year after moving from Illinois, she had no problems getting a license wearing the veil, said her attorney, Howard Marks. It was only after the September 11 attacks that the Florida Department of Motor Vehicles told her to replace the photo, he said. Jason Vail, an assistant state attorney, argued that having a face visible in a driver's license photo is a matter of public safety since criminals are often identified through such pictures. "It doesn't target religion," Vail said of the requirement. "It targets everyone."
Just take off your damn veil woman!! Why the hell are people so stubborn about these things...can't she see it's in no way an attack on her religion? Jeez...it's the law. You can't have a driver's license in which the face of a ninja appears.
Can't you just imagine the scene outside a club where the doorman is presented with one of these... Doorman: Uhhhhh...is this you? Lady: Ummm, yeah? Doorman:
There is nothing in Islam that says women should cover themselves as far as I know. It is a secular custom that requires that women hide their faces. Therefore, since this is America, obey our laws and pose for your picture like the rest of us. This political correctness is getting out of hand!
Man . . folx in a uproar cause they want to take UNDER GOD out of the pledge .. . in the same breathe they super willing to trounce on someone else's religious beleifs. . . Amazing Rocket river
wait wait wait...hold up!!! these two things are not analagous, though you might make them appear so on the surface. There is a law that says if you're going to drive an automobile in the state of Florida, you have to have a drivers license. Courts up and down this country have said driving is merely a privilege, not a right. Courts have also said that you do not have the right to break the law that applies evenly to all by hiding behind freedom of religion. Thus, Indian rituals involving smoking peyote, an illegal substance, are still illegal acts. If you start tearing up animals in the middle of a church service as some form of worship, you are not protected by the Constitution. In the same way, the state has an interest in being able to identify drivers with pictures....and that interest is applied reasonably in the form of drivers' licenses. She is not immune from that law because of her religion. No one is forcing her to request a drivers' license....if she wants one, she has to play by the rules set in place. This is entirely different from the pledge of allegiance situation entirely....don't confuse the two simply because they both involve religion in some way.
THIS IS NOT A QUESTION OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM- Islam does not require that women cover their faces. Let's be frank here- some cultures force women to cover their faces and bodies in an attempt to curb the sexual desires of men. In these cultures, women are treated as second class citizens who are not allowed to express themselves freely. This misinformation about "religious beliefs" actually helps to supress women's rights. We have a culture too, and people who move to our country have to obey our laws. If she does not want to participate with law enforcement here, then she should not have a driver's license.
Could you imagine the uproar if a Catholic was told to remove the ash on the forehead given on Ash Wednesday. I think I want the Christians (I'm included) to stay in the majority for one simple reason. Could you imagine the whining that would be done if somehow this country became more Jewish, or Muslim, or Buddhist, or any other religion? Christians complain non-stop it seems about how this country is no longer God like, or that the liberal heathens are taking God away. Meahwhile, probably 90% of our elected representatives share the same common views towards God. And really, what have the liberal heathens taken away. Well, school sponsored prayer in school is the only thing I can think of on a widespread scale. That does not mean that prayer in school is gone. Katy High School, as recently as 7 years ago, was having prayer services at the flagpole before school every other week. We had prayer before every basketball game and football game, and even at graduation. This was in 1995 at a public school. So, if the liberal heathens have taken God out of the school, they didn't do a very good job. All the other stories you hear (people made to take off WWJD bracelets, etc.) are isolated, and generally condemned by all-much like the taking down of God Bless America at a couple of schools or banning the Pledge, something that most liberal heathens disagree with, yet they are still vilified by the right when these rare and isolated, yet highly publicized, events take place. I shudder to think what would happen if Christians weren't in the vast majority.
RM95 -- i just don't understand how what you've posted here is relevant to this discussion. This is simply about identification...if the ashes on a person's forehead on Ash Wednesday kept them from being able to produce a reasonable likeness of the person for the purposes of a photo drivers' license ID, then it would be a problem. This woman is taking a picture so she can be identified by her picture...and subsequently covers her face. Can you imagine how useless photo id's would be if we were all allowed to cover our faces????
You're right MadMax, but I guarantee you, if a Catholic was asked to remove an ash, there'd be an uproar about it was just another way for our government to trample the rights of the religious. The other stuff was just something I couldn't decide which thread to put it.
I will conceed my ignorance on the nuiances of Islam. I was under the impression that various Sects of Islam [yes they have splinter groups just like Christianity - Methodist, Lutheran, etc] require the women to cover their faces. [Not unlike *when I was younger. . it may have changed* Pentecostal women could not wear pants. only skirts or dresses] As for women's Rights. . . in other countries. Who are we to judge/change the beleifs of other cultures. [See Native Americans for historical reference] In OUR culture Freedom of Religion etc. is a big deal. Tolerance and respect of other cultures is PREACHED ABOUT CONSTANTLY. . . .rarely practiced thought. We say one thing but seem to do things that way only when they convient. Rocket River
ugh....please tell me you are kidding. you think they're more tolerant of different religions in other countries??? and again...this is not about religious freedom...this is about a freaking photo ID!!!!! you can skirt that all you want to rant on and on, but it doesn't change the fact.
You're right MadMax, and I was wrong about the religious thing, if it's true. However, I stand by my other comments.
It's all about a photo I.D., no more, no less...The other crap (tangible/non-tangible) needs to be put in the trash can...
