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Wojnarowski on MEM trade, Lebron's future (disses Hollinger)

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by Carl Herrera, Jan 31, 2013.

  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Um, Rudy Gay's putting up a fat 14.3 PER this season - you think he's going to dramatically increase his effiency up to 22.0 for the remaining 39 or so games that he needs to get up to the level he last had a year ago? Sorry but that does not seem like a very high probability event, given his trajectory in Memphis which was basically rapid improvement in year 2, followed by slow decline.

    I'm tired of writing about why he's not a very benficial player, the definitieve piece is here if you want to read it. I think the evidence clearly shows he's an expensive add on, but if you believe otherwise, fine.

    http://offthedribble.blogs.nytimes....grizzlies-centerpiece-or-expensive-accessory/

    The only thing that I have to say is that in a post-Gay Memphis squad you can likely parcel his shots out among the remaining 9 players and not really see an incremental decrease in efficiency. It's not like Zach Randolph has to float out to the perimeter and take all 18 of Rudy's nightly pull up jumpers, more likely a few more shots here and there. Actually this is precisely what happened a few years ago when he got hurt in february and they pretty much continued along the same pace, making it all the way to the 2nd round of the playoffs.
     
  2. The Cat

    The Cat Contributing Member

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    From the very end of your own link, Sam:

    That's pretty much my perspective. He's a flawed player and very overpaid, but he brings a needed skillset to that team that no one else has. The 2010-11 team you referenced that was able to beat the Spurs and nearly the Thunder, without Gay? They had OJ Mayo waiting in the wings, not Tayshaun Prince.

    As for your "slow decline" since year two, I'm not seeing it. The highest shooting percentage of Gay's career, both FG% and TS%, came in 2010-11 -- his fifth season. The two highest PERs of his career came in the last two years. I don't think he's improving much either, to be fair. I think he's been a fairly consistent, what-you-see-is-what-you-get player, and I have a hard time believing at age 26 that he's taken some massive step back based on half of one season. Will he get back all the way to a 17.8 PER for this year? I doubt that, but I'll guess he gets it somewhere in the range of where he's been from the second year onward.

    I think Memphis, with Gay, had a puncher's chance in the playoffs. Not a good one, but better than they do today. If you want to argue that the chance with Gay was too small for the Grizzlies to justify keeping his contract, fine. I'll buy that. I'm not much of a Gay fan. But do the deal, keep Calderon (expiring) and don't rush into the Cleveland trade. Target 2014 flexibility and prioritize draft picks. Instead, they went with guaranteed upper-class mediocrity.
     
    #62 The Cat, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  3. JoeBarelyCares

    JoeBarelyCares Contributing Member

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    And then we later signed Scola to an extension that we had to use the amnesty clause to clear off our cap. Oh the irony.
     
  4. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    Huh?? That's not at all what's being said. It's not Toronto that made the horrible deal....Toronto gets better with this trade. People are saying that Memphis shouldn't have traded Gay RIGHT NOW, because they could have waited until the off-season and taken one last chance at getting to the Finals with their team.
     
  5. deshen

    deshen Member

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    Mem is apparently a better team now after the trade.
     
  6. J Sizzle

    J Sizzle Member

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    Not the way they're playing against the Thunder right now.
     
  7. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Contributing Member

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    1. OJ Mayo actually wasn't didnt' do that much to fill in the void left by Gay in 2010-11. He averaged 11 points a game both in regular season and playoffs and didn't really increase his production level during Gay's absence. 65% of his shots that season was assisted, so he wasn't exactly creating shots off the dribble a whole lot. Tayshaun Prince has produced at a similar level, and created more of his own shots, even in recent years.

    2. The whole "being able to create his own shot and hit a reasonable % of them" ability really is not worth that much by itself in terms of helping a team win. And Gay really doesn't have much in addition to this ability-- not a recognized plus defender like Deng or Paul George, not a good 3 point shooter like Granger, not a good passer, and doesn't score with particularly high volume or efficiency.

    3. One aspect of the Gay deal that hasn't been noticed as much as it should is that MEM gets a $7.5M+ trade exception, which should allow them to take either take on an unwanted contract for draft pick(s) or use it as a part of the assets to acquire a JJ Redick-type player without matching salaries.

    4. I don't like the Speights deal for giving up a draft pick, but if that's necessary for them to make the Rudy deal so that other teams don't hold this "help you get under tax level" thing hostage, then maybe it's justified.
     
    #67 Carl Herrera, Jan 31, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2013
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Say what you want about Rudy Gay's PER; don't forget that the man who invented it just got rid of him so obviously he considered it replaceable.
     
  9. ferrari77

    ferrari77 Contributing Member

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    Just wanted to say great job by The Cat, CHerrera and SFisher on this thread.
    All making salient points, no name-calling, no silly posturing, just making their points with evidence to back said points.

    Carry on lads.:)
     
    1 person likes this.
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    Except that their 15-4 record sicne indicates that it wasn't, sorry Woj:

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct...kTh38gg3bt63A1g&bvm=bv.43287494,d.dmg(granted this is bleacher report but the stats check out)
     
  11. Stack24

    Stack24 Contributing Member

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    If I am not mistaken I thought part of the reason they let go of Scola was because he wasn't leaving Europe to come to the NBA mainly cause of the log jam of PF's that the spurs had and he wanted to make sure he played. Soon as he was traded to Rockets he signed the deal knowing he would most likely be playing.
     
  12. thisiscaketown

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    Ed Davis will probably be the Grizzlies' Power Forward of the future, since Zach Randolph isn't getting any younger. I don't know why people are acting like he was a throw-in.
     
  13. roslolian

    roslolian Member

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    OMG I totally forgot about Ed Davis. LOL I think the Rudy Gay trade was karma for getting screwed in the Pau Gasol trade.
     
  14. gah

    gah Member

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    They have the best and youngest Gasol right now. Marc unscrewed that trade.
     
  15. andersongo

    andersongo Member

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    Marc is no longer the wrong Gasol.
     
  16. RoxBeliever

    RoxBeliever Member

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    After how many championships for Pau Gasol's Lakers?

    nah, that trade was still highway robbery by the Lakers
     
  17. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    Agree. I dont think many people envisaged Marc becoming the player he is today. Credit to him though his conditioning has improved immensely.
     
  18. OremLK

    OremLK Member

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    I still can't believe Memphis found a taker for that gay contract
     
  19. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    I remember Scola's agent publicly blasting the Spurs and the relationship may have been unsalvageable. The Spurs were coming off a championship and decided to keep the very limited Fabricio Oberto instead of upgrading to Scola. HUGE mistake. The notion of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" was the wrong way to go. The Rockets (and everyone else in the NBA) were grateful for the Spurs' blunder.

    All of the Rudy Gay debates have been sealed shut since the trade to Toronto.
     
  20. xiki

    xiki Contributing Member

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    It may not have a great deal but it was not a bad deal. Gay was way overpaid.

    As for the cable sports station, that four letter firm is firmly established as the go-to sports voice in the yewessuvay, for better or worse.
     

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