With us or against us?

Why would it Sam?

We are an occupying force in Iraq, when has an occupying force ever been popular?

The sooner we can turn over the country to the Iraqis the better.

DD

 

DD --

this isn't Iraq saying this...these are other countries, some of whom have been our allies for centuries.

i am VERY concerned about this, at this point. i don't think we can effectively counter terrorism without our allies. or at least i think it's far easier to have allies in this struggle than to not have allies in this struggle.

i'm concerned we're entering a period of intense nationalism again..or maybe it's continentism now...but, i don't think it's a good thing, whatever we choose to call it.

i'll also say right now...i was freaking wrong. i was wrong in my dismissive nature about europe's support (or lack thereof) for the war in iraq...i'm still convinced some good things happened there. and i don't know that i'd turn back the clock and start over, with saddam back in power. i just wish we wouldn't have burned so many relationships on the way. i wish we would have focused on saying, "look...we can have a win-win here for us and iraq. we need a stable democracy in the middle east...and iraq needs relief from a jackass tyrant. there's an opportunity for both here. oh, and, by the way...we have some concern that saddam might, in the future, develop the very weapons we know he had previously and hand those over to people we'd prefer didn't have them....soooo...here goes." now it appears as if we oversold our hand...and the rest of the world lost respect and trust. and i can't blame them for that.

 

Screw what the little Euro-weasels think. I'm tired of being told that what they think should affect our foreign policy. They are a bunch of limp-wristed cowards who'd much rather appease terrorists than go after them. They would much rather us be weakened because one superpower is "unfair." Well, to hell with those bastards.

 

Sam that Pew research link has some very interesting reading! Thanks!

 

Caught some of Biden on Hardball last night. He was commenting about how it feels really good to be the Lone Ranger and to not have to pay attention to allies and other countries regarding our actions. It has a great appeal now and throughout US history. He noted he feels that way sometimes. Then he said that as good and as proud as that makes us feel, it's a stupid to build a policy on that feeling and that we absolutely need international cooperation.

Sounds about right. Bama's rant actually has a certain appeal to me, but ultimately it's counter-productive.

 

MadMax;

I think you're wrestling with a question that many people have. Why didn't this Admin. think through the repercussions of going into Iraq at that time and manner?

Clearly the division over Iraq has created some dangerous political fallout that the Admin was unable to perceive. This was a failure of advance planning that got lost in the rush to invade and it was something that even people who had supported the invasion had cautioned the the Admin about. Its too late to turn back the clock now so unfortunately we have to prepare for more problems.

 

Is that what you're going to tell German authorities next time we want to conduct a joint operation to pursue Al Qaeda cells in Germany?

Al Qaeda is hiding out in a lot of countries and unless we are prepared to invade all of those nations to get at Al Qaeda we're going to need international help.

 

"We have in effect said to them, "Line up." We have treated them as if they were the Warsaw Pact. The United States issued orders, and they have to follow."

--Zbigniew Brzezinski in an interview with CNN shortly before the invasion

That's a simple and damning explanation of the Bush Administration's approach to Foreign Policy.

 

That's exactly why we need those allies. Your post illustrates that far more than the one I was going to make. Nice job.

 

Well, if they choose to do nothing about an obvious Al Qaeda cell on their territory, they are guilty of supporting them and..........

 

I think you have troubles seeing the degrees. They can take a terrorist cell in their territory and take it out. Whether they choose to get information from that cell regarding attacks on U.S. or not is entirely up to them. If they are wiping out terrorists they aren't supporting them, but the scenario I mentioned doesn't help us prevent an attack either.

 

Weren't the Russians, the Germans, and the French all caught with their index finger in Saddam's purse? Oh, how I admire their integrity. The US gets crucified for their supposed economic ambition in colonizing Iraq and those culprits get a walk? Huh?

 

If you want to spin the money trail, go ahead. Wasn't the U.S. caught with their index finger in purse while they were they were securing oil wells, and the oil ministry while the hospitals were being ransacked and innocent people killed. I'm not saying Certain Europeans aren't guilty, but there certainly is just as much circumstantial stuff to throw at the U.S. for profiteering.

 

So what's your answer to invade them then?

We neither have the man power nor other resources to hunt down Al Qaeda unilaterally. This is an area where we need to cultivate allies.

 

You are a xenophobic jackass.

 

I agree with rimrocker, I am humbled to be shown up for the poo flinging monkey I can be at times.

It is difficult to see what is happening when we are all caught up in the moment and everything. I was there after 9/11 along with the rest of the world. I was there through Afghanistan and stood up behind Bush as I truly thought he would put the world's goodwill to good use.

I was wrong, too.

 

And haven't we been the most egregious pickpockets of them all? At one time, we sold intelligence and weapons to Iraq while we were also arming Iran, the country they were at war with. The US has had its finger in that pie for a LONG time now.