1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Wisconsin Is Systematically Failing to Provide the Photo IDs Required to Vote in November

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by T_Man, Oct 2, 2016.

  1. T_Man

    T_Man Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2000
    Messages:
    6,870
    Likes Received:
    2,897
    Madison, WI— Zack Moore, a 34-year-old African-American man, moved from Chicago to Madison last year. He worked at a car wash and then a landscaping job before breaking his leg and becoming unemployed. After staying with his brother, he’s now homeless and sleeping on the streets of Madison.

    On September 22, he went to the DMV to get a photo ID for voting, as required by Wisconsin’s strict voter-ID law. He brought his Illinois photo ID, Social Security card, and a pay stub for proof of residence. But he didn’t have a copy of his birth certificate, which had been misplaced by his sister in Illinois, so the DMV wouldn’t give him an ID for voting. “I’m trying to get a Wisconsin ID so I can vote,” Moore told the DMV. “I don’t have my birth certificate, but I got everything else.”

    Under Wisconsin law, the DMV should’ve given Moore a credential he could use for voting within six business days. But that never happened. They told him to “drive down there [to Illinois] and get [a birth certificate] and come back.” That would cost Moore money he didn’t have. If he entered what the state calls the ID Petition Process (IDPP), it would take six to eight weeks for him to get a voter ID and he most likely wouldn’t be able to vote by Election Day.




    “I’m disappointed in the government,” Moore said after leaving the DMV. “I guess they’re trying to keep people from voting.”

    Moore voted in the last two presidential elections and wanted to vote for Hillary Clinton in 2016. “I consider myself a Democrat and I don’t think Republicans are for poor people or minorities,” he said. He was so disgusted with conditions in Wisconsin that he was thinking of moving back to Illinois before the election.

    Nine percent of registered voters in Wisconsin don’t have a valid voter ID and many are still struggling to get the documents they need to vote in November. It appears that Wisconsin is violating multiple court orders by not promptly giving eligible citizens free IDs or certificates for voting. This is particularly concerning, since early voting began this week in cities like Madison and Milwaukee and thousands of Wisconsinites are casting ballots.

    In an August ruling, US District Judge James Peterson said the IDPP was “unconstitutional” and “pretty much a disaster. It disenfranchised about 100 qualified electors—the vast majority of whom were African American or Latino—who should have been given IDs to vote in the April 2016 primary. But the problem is deeper than that: even voters who succeed in the IDPP manage to get an ID only after surmounting severe burdens.”

    He ruled that “Wisconsin may adopt a strict voter ID system only if that system has a well-functioning safety net.” He said the state must “promptly issue a credential valid as a voting ID to any person who enters the IDPP or who has a petition pending.”

    Wisconsin claims it is doing this. In a legal filing on September 22, Wisconsin Attorney General Brad Schimel cited a press release from the Department of Transportation stating, “DMV will now be issuing photo identification receipts no later than six business days from receipt of the petition application.” The Wisconsin Election Commissions issued a similar press release saying, “Free Photo ID for Voting Now Available with One Trip to DMV.” The Wisconsin attorney general said, “DMV is carefully administering the process to ensure that anyone who is eligible for the IDPP will have a valid ID for the November general election.”

    But recordings from the DMV clearly show this is not the case. Molly McGrath, the national campaign coordinate for VoteRiders, which helps people get voter IDs, accompanied Moore to the DMV and recorded the trip. Read this exchange between her and DMV employees:

    Molly: If you initiate the petition process do you get an ID for voting?

    DMV Employee 1: No, you don’t get anything.

    DMV Employee 2: No, you don’t get anything right away.

    Molly: Ok, so even if we start the petition process, and it takes eight weeks, he wouldn’t be able to vote.

    DMV Employee 1: Right, right, right.

    DMV Employee 2: Well, I don’t know, they’re working on that. It’s kind of up in the air right now.

    …Molly: I thought you could get an ID, like the sign says over there: “No birth certificate, no problem.” You can get an ID to vote.

    DMV Employee 3: You can. It just takes the time.

    Molly: So even if we just start the petition process, he wouldn’t get anything temporarily that says you can vote?

    DMV Employee 3: Nope. Nope.

    This is not just a problem in Madison. A volunteer for VoteRiders traveled to 10 other DMVs across the state to see what would happen to a voter who did not have a birth certificate and wanted to get an ID to vote. DMVs told her “it’s going to take quite a while” to get the credentials needed to vote and “it’s hard to predict” when that would be.

    Several suggested she get a birth certificate on her own. One said it would be “easier for everyone” to have her purchase a birth certificate from her home state than it would be to use the petition process to get an ID to vote. Most DMVs did not have IDPP forms readily available, but needed to hunt for them online, in a file drawer, or in a different part of the room.

    Overall, only three of 10 DMVs assured her that she would get an ID to vote in a week or less, as state law requires.

    “I’m worried there’s not a uniform process in place and it’s extremely unreliable from DMV to DMV,” McGrath says. “And that leaves me uncertain on how to advise voters about getting a voter-ID.”

    Legal experts say they’re extremely troubled by the state’s continued failure to fairly enforce the voter-ID law. “Wisconsin has promised the court that voters would be able to get an ID with whatever documents they have,” says Sean Young of the ACLU. “They’ve completely failed to live up to that promise.”

    The state keeps frantically changing its procedures to mollify the courts, leading to even more confusion among voters. Last week the Walker Administration proposed issuing “voting purposes only” IDs that could not be used for anything else, like opening a bank account. “The Division of Motor Vehicles also wants the free IDs—born of voter-fraud fears – to be cheapened in quality, with some fraud protections removed,” the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel reported.

    “The more they change the procedures, the clearer it becomes that this has nothing to do with voter impersonation,” Young says. “The whole process has no meaning anymore. It’s just a pointless obstacle to the right to vote.”

    The US Court of Appeals for the Seventh Circuit struck down anaffidavit that voters could sign in lieu of showing strict ID because Wisconsin claimed everyone would get a voter ID who needed one. But that’s not happening. “As we’re seeing on the ground, people are going to be disenfranchised,” Young says.


    [​IMG]
    Claudell Boyd with his documents.

    Moore’s case is part of a disturbing pattern. Claudell Boyd, a 62-year-old African-American man, moved to Wisconsin last year to escape the violence in Chicago. But because the first name on his birth certificate was spelled Clardell—the result of a mistake caused his mother’s cursive handwriting—the Wisconsin ID he was issued also says Clardell. He made two trips to the DMV to try to fix his Wisconsin ID, bringing his Illinois state ID, Social Security card, and marriage certificate with the proper spelling of his name, but the DMV said he had to go back to Illinois to correct his birth certificate. He was not offered a certificate for voting or enrolled in the IDPP. They said he either needed to change his name or his birth certificate.

    “I don’t think that’s fair,” Boyd said. “I don’t think I should have to change my name after all these years just to vote…. I’m going to keep going to the DMV and arguing my point until somebody helps me.” Like Moore, he had voted twice for Obama and said he wanted to vote for Clinton in 2016 because “Trump is not somebody you want to be president.”

    His parents were born in Mississippi, at a time when most African-Americans in the state couldn’t vote. Now history is repeating itself up north. “It looks like Wisconsin is making it harder for people like me to vote,” he said.


    T_Man
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    58,170
    Likes Received:
    48,346
    It's amazing how different Minnesota is from Wisconsin even though their ethnic and socio economic makeups are close to identical.
     
  3. TheresTheDagger

    Joined:
    May 20, 2010
    Messages:
    10,110
    Likes Received:
    7,766
    Government bureaucracy at its finest. The laws in Wisconsin seem overly onerus given these 2 cases although I'd like to hear the response from the Wisconsin DMV.
     
  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2001
    Messages:
    45,954
    Likes Received:
    28,051
    Maybe it's because Scott Walker and friends are crooked pieces of ****.
     
  5. Dei

    Dei Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,362
    Likes Received:
    335
    I agree that inconsistent, unreliable implementation of voter id is a problem but if these people are irresponsible enough to have lost their necessary documents and couldn't be bothered to secure them in good while beforehand, no mercy to them. They're irresponsible.
     
  6. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,168
    Likes Received:
    23,459
    It's a piece of paper. People can lose it for any number of reasons. Your house burning down could be one. WI is at least aware of such and provided ways to still allow you to vote without a birth certificate. But the DMV didn't follow their laws and provided a credential for Zack Moore to vote. You are perfectly ok with the State breaking its own law causing people to lose their right to vote?
     
  7. Dei

    Dei Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,362
    Likes Received:
    335
    I think I explicitly made my stand on that point in the post you quoted.
     
  8. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,168
    Likes Received:
    23,459
    I read it again. You didn't mention anything about whether you are ok or not about State breaking the law. Would you answer that?
     
    #8 Amiga, Oct 3, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2016
  9. Dei

    Dei Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2006
    Messages:
    7,362
    Likes Received:
    335
    Read it again or have your reading comprehension checked.
     
  10. superfob

    superfob Mommy WOW! I'm a Big Kid now.

    Joined:
    May 5, 2006
    Messages:
    2,095
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    All I read was victim blaming, so par for the course.
     
  11. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,270
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    My issue with the article is the author went out and was able to find one legit example (instead of throwing out baseless statistics, which I commend him/her for). This one guy was truly disenfranchised. However, I am sure we can go out and find one case of voter fraud to counterbalance the argument.

    These complaints are more about the ineffectiveness of government bureaucracy. Removing voter ID laws will not fix these individuals problems.

    This is the typical liberal mantra where they really do not give two ***** about their voter base once they get their vote. Republicans dont give a **** about their voter base either.

    He thinks the Republicans are not for the poor or minority ... neither are the Democrats.
     
    Dei likes this.
  12. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,168
    Likes Received:
    23,459
    Fair enough. We don't know how big an issue this is. But again, why risk disenfranchising voters to solve a problem that doesn't exists, and add extra costs to the government to go with it?

    I will repeat. If it's liberal matra to have effective government that does not disenfranchise, well, then what's the Conservative matra? To have less effective government that does disenfranchise?
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  13. Amiga

    Amiga Member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2008
    Messages:
    25,168
    Likes Received:
    23,459
    Exactly. A case where the government clearly fail and he turns around and blame the victim.
     
  14. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,270
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    Why not fix the root of the individuals problem? Again, Democrats do not give a **** after they get the vote. If they did, they would fix the root of the problem. Do you really think doing away with voter ID laws will fix this individuals problem? He still doesn't have his birth certificate and he still doesn't have a legit ID that will help him get benefits or even a job. He will still be plagued with ID issues going forward.

    So I ask again, do you really give a **** about this guy once you get his vote??? Obviously not because you're still harping on voter ID laws and have not address the root of his problem. And by the way, his problem is not limited to the poor and minority.

    Democrats have no interest in an effective government. Neither do Republicans. Quit pretending the Democrats do. Both parties have no concern for their constituents once their vote is casted. This is the general feeling in America. This is why Trump is even in the race.
     
  15. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

    Joined:
    May 15, 2000
    Messages:
    28,028
    Likes Received:
    13,051
    Predictable both sides do it Space Ghosting response.

    An actual example of voter disenfranchisement is somehow diminished because doing away with voter ID laws won't fix all his problems. You sound like a big gubmint proponent. Nobody is trying to fix all of this guy's problems but we are trying to ensure his right to vote isn't thrown away by voter ID laws that don't accomplish anything. Both sides do it though even if one side is trying to disenfranchise him and the other side is trying to secure his right to vote. But both sides do it and voting isn't a right! Ho ho ho. What?
     
  16. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,206
    Likes Received:
    20,353
    So disturbing and just goes to show how easy it is to undermine democracy in the name of winning elections.

    I really now do believe that the country will not survive the next 50 years as the same democracy as the right will find ways to take power and never relinquish it. The laws and Trump are a harbinger of the future.
     
    mdrowe00 likes this.
  17. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,270
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    Yes, it was the rights fault for putting Hillary up as their nominee. :rolleyes:

    The RNC put up 5-6 candidates and Trump was the best they could do.
    The DNC put up 2 candidates and had contingency plans to ensure Hillary won.
    They both put up two of the most unelectable candidates possible .... and you're blaming the right for trying to destroy democracy. Pull your head out of your ass and quit being a partisan homer. Both parties suck. Quit supporting them and being their puppet.
     
  18. ApolloRLB

    ApolloRLB Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2010
    Messages:
    949
    Likes Received:
    482
    I'm more confused why he needs a birth certificate if he has state issued photo ID, SS card, and proof of residence?
     
  19. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    18,270
    Likes Received:
    8,637
    From my understanding, many states are requiring birth certificates or passports (which requires a birth certificate).

    You can thank the Dept of Homeland Security for this. If you want further reading, google Real ID. FYI, Texas is not compliant. (as many other states). I suspect the next time you renew your license, you will be required to have your birth certificate or passport.
     
  20. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2007
    Messages:
    39,206
    Likes Received:
    20,353
    To make it harder for minorities to vote. Duh.

    This has nothing to do with fraud - it's about winning an election.
     

Share This Page