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Winston Churchill about Islam

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Feb 4, 2015.

  1. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Yeah, I think it works both ways. A nation gets a little prosperity, starts becoming more secular, which leads to loosening restrictions and more prosperity, which leads to even more secularism, anon anon. We've also seen poor backwards nations embrace secularism, which leads to prosperity, anon anon.

    And we have seen the opposite . We have seen nations get destroyed in war or other events, and then turn to religion, and the increasing zealotry of the nation causes even further degeneration of the socioeconomic condition.

    But, as much as I agree with you on this point, the fact that this is the case (that the prosperity and the secularism is not a one way causal street, it is a dialectic) is why we can't discount the lack of prosperity in the Muslim world now or the actions of Christian Europe when it was much less prosperous, when we are evaluating those two religions.

    Personally I discount both religions out of whole cloth and encourage all people to embrace and support secularism -- so, I don't feel the need to get too far into the debate of Christianity vs Islam. I just really can't stand to see Christians on a high horse after everything that has been done in the name of their diseased religion.
     
  2. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Why would it surprise you that I am on the side of secularism vs. religious fanatism?
     
  3. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Oh, the secularism part does not surprise me, no worries there. I'm just surprised you would be supportive of the Rojava revolution since it is an experiment in Democratic Confederalism, which is a radical left wing philosophy form the American Anarchist Murray Bookchin.

    Don't get me wrong, the fact you would suspend your disagreements with them in order to support the most secular option in the region definitely casts you in a much more favorable light in my eyes.
     
  4. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    Winston was a pretty sharp guy - he could see a problem with the culture/religion, interesting.

    DD
     
  5. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    You took that wrong. I actually thought it was a worthy topic. Norway and the US wrt to living standards and religiosity is an interesting topic. The US is the most church going of the well-off f western democracies and the most selfish wrt to ist lower classes
     
  6. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Well good for you... But there are people in this country who don't feel safe. My post wasn't addressing your safety as an individual which I'm assuming you say that because of your religious beliefs.

    My post is pointing out that people are going to do crazy shyt rather it has to do with religion or not because that's what people do.
     
  7. downbytheriver

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    And it was laughed at because all the """crazy shyt""" is disproportionately here because of Islam. The quran is rhetoric brainwashing a tribal and savage peoples. You want modern muslims to finally become civilized? Starts with the propaganda theyre fed from the imams and scholars. Gotta pressure them out instead of turning a blind eye to them because you secretly harbor the same view point but want to.... "fit in" in the west. we can see your agenda and the fake innocent cries are wearing thin as more, and more innocent people die. Westerners AND muslims.
     
  8. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    You would be surprised what an ideology that promises an after life does to a human. Rational thought processes are often thrown out the window when eternal paradise is promised. Plenty of morality or moral decisions are closely tied with rationality. Once rationality is thrown out the window, morality is altered.
     
    #68 fchowd0311, Feb 5, 2015
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2015
  9. Remii

    Remii Member

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    I was pointing out crazy shyt in America and a majority of it isn't being committed by Muslims.

    And people don't go to war because of religion. You guys are just blaming Islam because you have an agenda.
     
  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Do you believe Islam has any bad ideas?

    This is a common straw man from individuals such as yourself. Stop changing our position. NO ONE has even remotely hinted at the notion that Islam is the only problem on this damn planet. It is A problem.
     
  11. Remii

    Remii Member

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    There are all kinds of ideologies... Money and Drugs are big ideologies in this country. Also the bullshyt ideology that we send our soldiers to the middle east to fight for 'our' freedoms.
     
  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Again... did anywhere I mention that Islam is the only problem. My commentary about the "after-life" was on the two major monotheistic religions anyways. Both Christianity and Islam invoke irrational thought processes that are not always beneficial to a living human but rather the promise of what happens after death. When a human lives for life after death, sometimes rational actions don't follow.
     
  13. Panda23

    Panda23 Member

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    Kimmy is a religion unto himself. North Korea is not secular when you really factor in the image/reverance Kimmy is held in. He IS their God.
     
  14. Remii

    Remii Member

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    I toss all religions in the same boat and I don't believe any of them are right. Just a form of control.
     
  15. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    So we CAN blame Islam on some of the negative that is happening on this planet?
     
  16. Remii

    Remii Member

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    Maybe there is or isn't life after death. I don't know. But Zionists believe they have the right to murder and take land because God told them it was ok... What's the difference...???
     
  17. Remii

    Remii Member

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    You blame religion... And I see people who want revenge (and power). No one goes to war over religion. It's always about money, power, and or revenge...
     
  18. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Never say never. You might be correct in the ultimate goals of heads of states and those in power but what about those not in power that use religious motivation and are fooled by those in power?
     
  19. HamJam

    HamJam Contributing Member

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    Well said. The people recruiting suicide bombers are most likely motivated by desire for power and realpolitik, but those doing the suicide bombing are able to be recruited because of religion.

    Sort of like in the U.S. The people starting the wars and sending soldiers overseas are motivated by power, money, oil, realpolitik -- those doing the actual dying on the ground are able to get convinced to go over there because of patriotism, "freedom", 'Merica's #1, etc.
     
  20. Remii

    Remii Member

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    If not by religious motivation they would find something else to pull their strings (just like HamJam stated).... But it's hard to point at religious motivations when you see people of the same religion fighting amongst themselves. And as far as the terrorist attacks in the western world. I believe many of those people believe they are fighting against injustices. It's not like the countries they attack are angles and haven't done any wrong. When you have groups of people who feel they have been oppressed and or wronged.. Radical groups may pop up, and that's something that has been going on throughout history in different cultures.

    I really think 'fear' is the main motivation though. After 9/11 the US government was able to use our fear to give up our privacy rights (even though they may have been ease dropping already). Fear is the ultimate tool.
     

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