Will the cold blooded murder of an American icon by an Israeli go unpunished?

Already posted.

http://bbs.clutchcity.net/php3/showthread.php?s=&threadid=53714

Her death was a shame, but "an American Icon"?

 

Conviction alone doesn't mean jack. Were the SS committed when perpetrating the Holocaust? Did the hijackers have deep conviction in militant Islam preached by OBL? Were the Palestanian bombers deeply committed to their cause?

Using examples you can understand, Oliver North had deep convictions that what he did was necessary and patriotic. The commander in My Lai had deep convictions that he was conducting the war in an acceptable manner.

Of course many just and good men and women who are committed to just and good causes. But conviction alone, I repeat, doesn't mean jack.

 

I feel sorry for her

but...

If you put yourself in a deadly situation you have to be prepared to die. She should not have been in front of that dozer and she had plenty of time to get out of the way. Could the dozer had stopped, yes, BUT she had equal time to get out of the way.

My prayers to her family, but (and I know this is cruel to say) she died for being stupid. What did she think she could stop a dozer with her will or her body.

 

If you took a minute and read the original thread I linked to, you would know that I at least feel sorry for her.

To judge whether her actions could be justified, there are two questions to pounder: Was her cause justified? and b) Was her method effective?

Regarding the cause, I am sympathetic. I recognize the Isrealis' need to destroy terrorist infrastructures. But I also agree with the statement that the Isrealis are prone to go overboard and commit uncalled for brutalities. This is a fifty year debate, let us just lay that aspect to rest for a minute.

Was her method effective? An unmistakebly no. Getting yourself killed by a bulldozer would not benefit the Palestanian people and would not change the operations of the IDF.

There had been too much spilled blood and too many martyrs in that conflict. Radicalizing it further would not bring peace.

 

So peaceful protests don't work, and terrorism definitely doesn't work. I guess the Palestinians can only pin their hopes on the American government like they have done for the past 50 plus years. Sucks for them.

 

Well, try to build a democratic and liberal society not so seeped in hatred and mass insanity. hint: get rid of Arafat, straighten up corrupt politicians, make sure the Euro and American aid dollars go to ordinary people instead of Arafat's Swiss accounts, and never, ever support terrorists by calling them martyrs on television.

 

I pity her as a human being and not much more. We are not exactly talking about Mother Teresa here. It is offensive to equate Ghandi and MLK with her obvious hatred of America and Isreal.

 

read the original thread. This has really been dragging too long.

 

And tell those Israelis not to settle on occupied territories, especially when they're segregating the Palestinians into slums on those lands. Or at least have some clarification to what "democractic" means in Israeli society, pre-1965 America or post 1965...

I'm not taking any official positions here, but the one sided blame game being played is why this is a 50 year old problem.

 

Well, my post suggested the things the Palestanians can do. I did not put the entire blame of the conflict on them. Isreal surely has its guilt. But regardless of what Isrealis do, the Palestanians would benefit from reorganizing their society into the modern age. Are the building of settlements insane? Yes. But there is no need on the rational Palestanians part to act equally insane by educating their sons to be suicide bombers. Isreal must change its behavior to end this conflict, but you were talking about Palestinian conditions and I replied how they could better their lives.

Terrorism is NOT the weapon of the desperate, otherwise the Tibetans would be bombing all over China. Terrorism is a conscious choice by evil men and carried out by the gulliblly deceived.

 

American Icon?!?!?!
Not mine.

 

How would these Palestinians modernize without a permanent homeland? How would they create a socioeconomic infrastructure without an official status or geography? How would they enforce policy without a solid infrastructure to build upon? You take all these questions and they all answer back to the impending question of Palestinian peace and reconcilliation with Israel. Blame the terrorists or blame the Israeli tanks, but the people want peace.

European condemnation or approval of Israel is not going to determine the policy of Israeli officials. We are and it should not be underestimated. We've overlooked and overexpanded into the problem because the American government is unwilling to tackle the problem of peace head on. Why are we looking the other way? Because the Israelis provide massive intel and is considered a reliable and stabilizing ally in a region that is in our national interests. With fundamentalist Islam increasing in influence, there is not going to be the middle ground that was policy since the Cold War era.

Terrorism is fanned and encouraged when it is the public's perception that no one is promoting their cause, and terrorism is their only option to voice opposition. The IRA grew massively when the British sent soldiers to N. Ireland and those soldiers where sympathetic to the Protestants. It helped dissuade the moderate Catholics that peace wouldn't come from the British government.

When you consider that girl's death meaningless, it promotes the belief that terrorism is needed to create a larger reaction in order to deliver the desired message.

 

The Palestanians had their little parcels of territory, not the best circumstances to build a healthy society. It would be unreasonable to ask them to build a perfect civil society from scratch. But how hard is it to stop calling suicide bombers martyrs on television? The problem with the Palestaians IS their society. Their society is deeply diseased. That is a society where most people consider a unified Palestine from the river to the sea (ie, the massacre or displacement of all isreali jews). Theirs is a society in which suicide bombers' families get financially and socially compensated. Theirs was a society in which children bring the pictures of suicide bombers to school and idolize them. The Palestanian side of the problem IS their society. Suppose you are a middle aged Palestanian father (the kind of people who hold power in Palestinian societies), you know your struggles had failed, you feel angry and frustrated and desperate, but if you have an once of decency left in you, would you teach your son to follow exactly the same route of defeat, or even teach him to be a suicide bomber. This IS a society on temporary insanity we are talking about. Unless rational and moderate Palestinians speak out from with in their society, there will not be a solution for peace even if you have Gandhi as the Isreali PM.