1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

Will: Bush the Liberal

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Batman Jones, Sep 21, 2004.

  1. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 1999
    Messages:
    15,937
    Likes Received:
    5,491
    http://slate.com/id/2107025/

    Bush the Liberal
    The nobility and folly of democratizing Iraq.
    By William Saletan
    Posted Tuesday, Sept. 21, 2004, at 3:13 PM PT


    I admit it. I have a soft spot for President Bush.

    I love it when he goes to the United Nations—as he did two years ago and again today—and tells those lazy cynics to get off their duffs. They spend their days congratulating each other, passing toothless resolutions, and giving lip service to tired pet issues. Bush is just what they need. He pokes them in the ribs. He points out that scofflaws are treating them like a joke. He tells them to enforce their threats, or he'll do it for them. He preaches freedom and democracy. He vows to serve others, no matter who else joins in the cause. He refuses to back down, no matter what the price.

    Unfortunately for Bush, it's the liberal in me who loves these things. And it's the conservative—in me and other Americans—who's turning away.

    This is what liberals do: They coerce or cajole the fortunate to serve the less fortunate. They spend American lives and money to serve causes beyond our national interest. It's what lured Presidents Kennedy and Johnson into Vietnam. It's what conservatives hated about President Clinton's war in Kosovo.

    Bush didn't plan Iraq as an altruistic war. He thought Saddam Hussein posed a grave threat to the United States. He thought there were weapons of mass destruction. He still thinks Saddam was al-Qaida's buddy. It's the evidence that has undercut these arguments. So Bush has fallen back on arguments that used to be peripheral to his case: We liberated Iraqis from a brutal dictator. We're building a model of democracy in the Middle East.

    It's inspiring stuff. But don't tell me Americans would have tolerated going to war for these reasons. We thought we were heading off another 9/11.

    In today's speech, Bush tried to sell the world on collective law enforcement. "Every nation that wants peace will share the benefits of a freer world," he observed. "Eventually, there is no safe isolation from terror networks, or failed states that shelter them, or outlaw regimes, or weapons of mass destruction. Eventually, there is no safety in looking away, seeking the quiet life by ignoring the struggles and oppression of others."

    True, every nation benefits. But not every nation has to share the cost. The shrewdest strategy, from the selfish standpoint of France or Turkey, is to let America do the work.

    This is what happened in Iraq. Saddam "agreed in 1991, as a condition of a cease-fire, to fully comply with all Security Council resolutions—then ignored more than a decade of those resolutions," Bush recalled. "Finally, the Security Council promised serious consequences for his defiance. … And so a coalition of nations enforced the just demands of the world."

    "Coalition" is Bush's euphemism for the United States. As John Kerry pointed out yesterday, it's our military that has supplied 90 percent of the troops and sustained 90 percent of the casualties. It's our $200 billion that has funded the war and the occupation. Bush didn't think about these things. Neither did I. Like many other Americans, I asked whether the enforcement of Security Council resolutions defied by Saddam was our unilateral right. I neglected to ask whether it was our unilateral responsibility.

    One thousand American lives, $200 billion, and zero WMD stockpiles later, I'm asking. So are many others. So is Kerry. "We must make Iraq the world's responsibility," he said yesterday. Not the world's right. The world's responsibility.

    Bush wants you to think that he's the America-first guy, and Kerry is the utopian internationalist. But take a closer look. Yesterday, Kerry asked, "Is [Bush] really saying to America that if we know there was no imminent threat, no weapons of mass destruction, no ties to al-Qaida, the United States should have invaded Iraq? My answer: resoundingly, no, because a commander in chief's first responsibility is to make a wise and responsible decision to keep America safe."

    Notice the references: to America. Should the United States invade. Keep America safe.

    Last night, Bush shot back, "It's hard to imagine a candidate running for president prefers the stability of a dictatorship to the hope and security of democracy. If I might, I'd like to read a quote [Kerry] said last December: 'Those who doubted whether Iraq or the world would be better off without Saddam Hussein, and those who believe we are not safer with his capture don't have the judgment to be president. … ' I couldn't have put it better."

    See the difference? Iraq and the world are better off with Saddam gone. Bush is mistaken: It isn't hard to imagine that a candidate for president would prefer stability abroad to democracy. We're talking about the presidency of the United States, not the world. What's hard to imagine is that the candidate who prefers stability is the so-called liberal and the candidate who prefers democracy and "hope" is the so-called conservative.

    Count the candidates' buzzwords. The word "burden" appeared five times in Kerry's speech yesterday. The words "idealism" and "ideals" appear six times in Bush's speech today.

    "Coalition forces now serving in Iraq are confronting the terrorists and foreign fighters so peaceful nations around the world will never have to face them," Bush effused this morning. He thanked U.N. officials for their "selfless" assistance and concluded, "The advance of freedom always carries a cost, paid by the bravest among us."

    So much selflessness, so much bravery, so much cost—not for our benefit, but for all those "peaceful nations" that won't lift a finger to enforce the resolutions of their own United Nations. As a liberal, I admire it. As a conservative, I wonder how it looks to the guy in Ohio who can't pay his bills.
     
  2. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    I'll say what Brian said...

    Consistency is a beautiful thing.
     
  3. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    10,240
    OK, I give up. What's the reference?
     
  4. Almu

    Almu Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    2,387
    Likes Received:
    40
    Great article Will.

    I guess you don't work for Fox News, huh? ;)
     
  5. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,381
    Likes Received:
    39,948
    Very nice article.

    DD
     
  6. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,424
    Likes Received:
    9,324
    Flip:

    Flop:

     
  7. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,087
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    The sudden switch to overwrought idealism on Iraq, an extreme example of "social engineering", is similar to the way that the Right has abandoned many another themes.

    Other examples are the abandonment of the the "strict constructionist" and "states rights" themes when the S. Ct. selected Bush. Of course, they have been willing to abandon "fiscal conservatism" when it is useful for busting the budget to try to destroy social programs that are otherwise popular.
     
  8. BrianKagy

    BrianKagy Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    4,106
    Likes Received:
    6
    Of course, you'll mean it in a different way, but that comes as no surprise.
     
  9. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    Brian suggested in another thread that you remained consistent in your opinions and that was better than we could say for most. For me, it means your articles consistently reflect well-thought-out opinions, something often in short supply around here. :)
     
  10. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    Yeah, and I wasn't even talking about politics or the candidates! :)
     
  11. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

    Joined:
    Feb 15, 1999
    Messages:
    18,452
    Likes Received:
    119
    Hey....I resemble that remark!:D
     
  12. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    10,240
    I'm totally fascinated by the role of consistency in this election. I like Bush's principles, but I wish he understood that principles are worthless unless you apply them judiciously, case by case. He's like a doctor who thinks the cure for every disease is surgery. Kerry, on the other hand, is so preoccupied with the nuances of each case that his principles narrow to near-meaninglessness. His principle takes up the first 10 words of the sentence, and his caveats take up the next 40. So we have to pick between one candidate who has too little consistency and another who has too much.

    Basically it's a choice between the scarecrow and the tin man.
     
  13. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 1999
    Messages:
    129,381
    Likes Received:
    39,948
    Exactly.....

    We have not had a GOOD choice for a president since Reagan.

    Sure, people may not have liked his policies, but he was probably the best candidate since JFK.

    Not too many to chose from these days.

    DD
     
  14. Pimphand24

    Pimphand24 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2003
    Messages:
    547
    Likes Received:
    27
    Wait, let me get this straight.... The Will Saletan who wrote this article, is the Will in the ClutchCrew?
     
  15. kpsta

    kpsta Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2001
    Messages:
    2,654
    Likes Received:
    166
    Yes, the same...
     
  16. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2000
    Messages:
    22,891
    Likes Received:
    12,681
    From the clutch crew page.

    Will Saletan
    BBS Moderator/Columnist E-Mail

    Nicknamed "C-Span" for having been interviewed numerous times on the TV channel. A tremendous Rocket fan who is also a professional writer for a well-known political publication. Will, who hails from La Porte, TX, has helped out countless times with unique commentary on the Rocks as well as some of the most insightful takes in the Clutch BBS.
     
  17. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2002
    Messages:
    57,800
    Likes Received:
    41,239
    Oh, you're good. I think it's a tree and a bush, but that's OK. ;)
     
  18. basso

    basso Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2002
    Messages:
    33,424
    Likes Received:
    9,324
    that explains the familiarity in Batman's "Will" thread titles. you tight w/ "Josh" as well? could we get Glenn Reynolds or James Taranto on the Clutch Crew too, in the interest of being "fair and balanced?"
     
  19. Will

    Will Clutch Crew
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    5,290
    Likes Received:
    10,240
    LOL. Basso, this is a Rockets site. This forum is here to weed the politics out of the main forum, not to encourage it.

    If you want fair and balanced, what we really need in here are Jazz fans. Don't hold your breath.
     
  20. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    22,412
    Likes Received:
    362
    LOL!!! :D
     

Share This Page