Why were Rudy and CD so eager to get this deal done?

Yeah! Is Eddie Griffin a 4???!?



TheFreak, I did some catching up when I got back on Wed. and it looks as if this topic might have been covered ad nauseam. You might want to check the following few threads.

 

Interesting. One other thing: Even though I am in favor of the deal, how does a 34 year old guy like Rice fit on this team? The Rockets had much less individual talent on their team last year than all but a pathetic, select few group of teams. This team's strength was its off-court comraderie and feeling of brotherhood. With Shandon and Bullard gone, and Walt Williams and Moochie Norris on the way out, what happens to that chemistry? This is part of the reason I think the Rockets should avoid trading Williams (unless an unbelievable offer presents itself). He serves as a gap between Rice and the younger guys and from what I've heard, is a calming influence in the lockerroom.

Freak, I think the Rice trade could work, but I hope this is the last deal they make.

 

oh great, thecabbage is offering legitimacey to this thread.

Maybe the third time is the charm TheFreak(Pippen, Anderson, now Rice). Maybe he's abandoning the intangible player contribution and going straight for the scoring. Rudy apparently isn't the best communicator for those players that he expected to be peripheral cogs. The Pippens and Andersons don't shoot the lights out for your team, but they do expect to get condiment scoring. Rudy doesn't alter his team for catsup and mustard. He organizes around the dog. His offense is hot dog centric.

Glen Rice, in Rudy's system, is relish. He's not some intangible effervescent hint of flavor... he's something that Rudy can quantify... a shooter.

What does this mean? I haven't the slightest ****ing idea.

I don't think that there are hidden motives. CD and Rudy were just perhaps making the best of a situation. For all we know, Shandon was unsalvageable... he certainly seemed out of place.

As far as Glen Rice's health, I suppose I'll 'get on board' and assume the best. They have the data. I'll assume some semblance of competence (especially considering Les stepped in but still approved the deal).

 

All this yack about fragile team chemistry sounds like middle school girl cliques. What would Red Auerbach say? These guys are pros; they get paid huge money to play a game.

 

Even though I am in support of this Glen Rice deal, I will admit that its a risky transaction for reasons already stated. However, this deal has a relatively large upside imo. I just cant say the same for signing Shandon to a long term deal. It became more and more obvious to me that Shandon was a bad fit on this team. In addition, his defense was good but he just could not match up against the bigger wingmen in the league, (Dirk Nowitzki, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Shawn Marion, etc) who completely tortured the Rockets. Thus, I felt that releasing Shandon would be a whole lot better than signing him to a 6 yr deal even if it was 30 million instead of 42 million. Even if Rice doesnt work in the Rockets system next season, he will only have 2 yrs left with the ballclub whereas Shandon would have 5.

As far as the question of why this money wasnt given to Hakeem.... My feeling is that the Rockets were not willing to commit a guaranteed 3 yr contract for the kind of money Toronto was offering. I have heard several arguments that the money was the same, but the Rockets offer only had 2 yrs 10 mil guaranteed, whereas Toronto had all 3 yrs at 17 mil guaranteed. Even though posters like Freak and ZRB like to put different spins on the Hakeem's limited play of last two seasons, the facts show that he played 58 of 82 last season and 44 of 82 the season before. Glen Rice over that same time frame appeared in 75 of 82 and 80 of 82. Its very easy for posters and fans to get swayed by sentimentality, but Les Alexander, Rudy T and CD have to make intelligent and prudent decisions.

The point I am trying to make is that the Rice move may or may not pan out, but I would much rather take the chance on Rice than give Hakeem 3 yrs 17 mil guaranteed or Shandon even remotely near what he earned from the Knicks.

 

Shandon didn't want to come back. He didn't fit the system, but he wanted more $$$ than he could get by just walking. The Rockets didn't want him to leave and get nothing in return.

As for Hakeem, the Rockets offered him as much as they were willing to offer him. In addition, Hakeem didn't want to be back here. Both sides said all the right things but neither of them really wanted to continue like it was. Hakeem wanted a fresh start in a new city and the Rockets wanted to move beyond the Hakeem Olajuwon era.

Bottom line is that this deal had nothing to do with Dream, but alot to do with the fact that Anderson didn't want to come back and the Rockets wanted some kind of compensation for him.

I don't know about the injury situation. Rice is pretty tough. He doesn't usually miss games. Last year, despite a seriously painful foot, he only missed like 7 games. That's pretty damn tough.

 

Further "looking for the good", it does seem as if Rice has been a bit of an iron man lately.

I can't remember though, why did he miss 23 games in the lockout shortened season? Was that heel spurs or elbow spurs or something? A contract hassel(maybe that was Eddie Jones??)? I can't quite remember.

 

He had surgery on his elbows, if I'm not mistaken, and after that, even though he was fully recovered it became clear that he wasn't going to play for the hornets again...

right after that he became a laker.

 

Achebe, the reason Rice sat out 20-some games was because of contract problems. As soon as he was traded to the Lakers though, he started playing again.

 

Freak, it couldn't have worked that way.

Fegan was Shandon's agent and Hakeem's agent. If you renounce Shandon, he has no way to get the bigger money. That's a major conflict of interest for Fegan, and he probably knew that a long term deal would net a larger total amount for Shandon compared to Hakeem. The more Fegan gets his clients, the more he gets.

And, if you assume Fegan wouldn't allow the Rockets to sign him to a lesser deal than what he got from NY (or that a 5.33 base, on a 6 year deal) then it comes out the Rockets really didn't have more than ~4.7 base to offer Hakeem- and that's if they renounce Bullard.

Personally, I think part of this "Rice health" business was to send Fegan a message. I'm interested in seeing how it affects Moochie.

Shandon and Pippen's main abilities were going to the hoop, and neither really got the chance. If Rice gets the jumpers Shandon got, teams will be blown out of the water.

Shandon just didn't fit. Mobley outplayed him at the 2, and most of his defensive skills were lost at the 3. We'll be able to get a similar player with the picks we've picked up in the recent trades.

tcab-I'm not so sure the offcourt chemistry suffers all that much in the whole sense. The main 3 young guys are still here (Francis, Mobley, Taylor), and they added a good friend of Steve's in Morris, and a Philly guy like Mobley, in Eddie Griffin. I think Moochie may still be around. This can now really be considered Steve's locker room, without the presence of Hakeem.

 

thanks thanos, lafadeaway. I'll ignore the obvious implications for the time being. If I o.d. on The Cat's optimism though, I reserve the right to trash Rice.

For the time being, I'll just try to see him as a SF that's going to shoot the 3 ball a lot. No under, no overexpectations. Just give us 40% 3 point shooting and stay effective within 23'.

 

Jeff--

I agree with most things I've seen you write, and I don't want to split hairs here, but I don't think the point of the debate was whether or not the Rockets were willing to offer Hakeem more money (equiv. to Rice, etc.), but whether or not they SHOULD have...The fact that they didn't speaks for their intent, it's their decision that's subject to question...Frankly, I think Hakeem's a better fit in Toronto at this stage, but the matter of Rockets' priorities is interesting...

 

Nah, I'd rather have Phil Jackson's e-mail. Half his team got into with the other half, including the star players arguing in the media and nearly getting into a fist fight, and they still won back-to-back championships.

 

And what was the Lakers Achilles heel before Jackson? Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was pretty much acknowledged that their "chemistry" was keeping their "talent" from achieving it's potential...Wasn't that the whole point of bringing in an ego-master like Jackson?

 

As mentioned, I don't think Rice's health is really an issue. CD and RT and Les can't come out and say, Fegan sucks, we're letting him twist, we want to squeeze draft picks out of these teams. But that's what happened. Best to say, "We think Rice'll be ready."

 

Again, an uninformed fan who doesn't realize that money is not the issue with the trade...

Let's say the Rockets re-sign Anderson for 4-5 million... Does the 4-5 million they save REALLY help the Rockets cap-wise? No... Because, the Rockets more than likely will be over the cap anyway... And, being under the cap is useless unless you are under the cap by about 6 million or more...

The only person who should care about salary is Mr. Alexander... He is the one who will pony up for Rice's contract...

Mentioning salaries as a down point of this trade is ridiculous...

 

Well I can see why the Rockets brought Rice in here. The 3 position has been a problem for them for a while now, and Shandon was not the answer at that position.

Offensively Shandon did not fit in with the Rocket's system. The way the Rocket's space the floor and let Francis or Mobley drive while everyone else sits back and wait for an open 3, was not suited to a guy like Anderson. He knew he didn't fit into the system, but he never complained or became a cancer like Scottie Pippen did. I have a lot of respect for Shandon, he is a good player and I hope he does well in New York.

The Rocket's are trying to make the Playoff's this year. With Rice in the starting line up they have legitimate starters at all the positions excluding Center. The Rocket's are not going to contend for a Championship, but it would be nice to see them get back to the Playoff's.

 

Shandon Anderson vs Glen Rice at the SF spot is a no-brainer.

They've both proven to be pretty durable players, the only difference is Rice can actually shoot and doesn't ruin the offensive flow like Anderson does. Anderson always had the deer in headlights look when the ball got into his hands. The man couldn't hit a shot to save his life.

There are more similarities between Pippen and Anderson (slashers that play decent defense, but can't shoot) than there are between Pippen and Rice in my opinion.