Why we don't need another big star

I sure sure Larry Bird hated having to share the limelight with those McHale and Parrish fellows. And Dennis Johnson, a former all-star only got to feed those three the ball all the time, that must have stunk. About that time Worthy came to the Lakers, so Magic not only had to share the stage with Kareem, but this other smooth finisher guy too. And Moses went to Phily so Doc and Mo and Toney have to all 4 share the limelight on there way to their first and only NBA championship. Heck, some of the 60's Celtic teams had a couple of HoFamers who were bench warmers--how did that ever work?

Sorry, I just don't buy the argument that great players don't like to play with other great players, or that too many stars is a bad thing. I am not sure where this argument comes from (this is not the only post to suggest it) but I just don't see any real basis for it. If this is the case now (winning is less important than being "center stage"), then it is time for me to turn the NBA off. Except with a couple of rare exemptions (Rockets in 94, Spurs in 1999), even in todays watered down NBA I think you need to have at least 2 great players--and then hopefully have 3-5 solid role players around them--to make serious championship runs.

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hate to do an Iverson comparison, but Philly will never win a championship unless they get a star with him. It's not even necessarily telling Francis he's the 2nd scorer. He'll have more people to pass to, and then the defense would have to respect that 2nd superstar and Francis wouldn't be doubled as much. I'm sure Shaq and Kobe are hating it right now. (Glen Rice is having problems cause Jackson doesn't really like him, and the system doesn't work for him.) Now, you can argue till you turn blue that Mobley is/will be a superstar. I won't buy it. Perhaps a 1-2 time allstar, and a consistent 15-18 PPG scorer, but not a superstar. Superstars do more than one thing well (ie-rebound, pass, play defense, etc.) and if you're a 2 guard like Mobley, you either have all around stuff (Kobe's rebound and passing) or you're a sickly good scorer (Iverson) or you have that defense (Eddie Jones...he's still a better defender than Kobe). None of which I'd say Mobley stands out in. To answer your question, how did Hakeem feel when we got Drexler? Barkley? Pippen? Francis? He never was really grudged over any of them.

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Unless Francis can carry the Rockets the way Hakeem did in 1994, and we somehow get a ton of chemistry real fast, and we somehow get a very strong bench, and we somehow get a bunch of very strong role players, then YES we do need another star.

Besides, we don't have any low post scoring on this team. A star big-man would make this team an immediate contender. Maybe not favorite, but contender.... 4 or 5 seed at least.

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I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.

[This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited May 09, 2000).]

 

Umm... we might be able to win with great role players and Francis, but why try? Our odds improve with another great player.

Secondarily, what if we get a better player than Francis, like Duncan or Garnett (we won't get either one, but hypothetically)? Should we pass up a better player to placate Francis' ego? That's silly.

BTW, Francis isn't going to be better than Payton, at best, in the next few years. Payton can't do it alone, and neither can Francis. Heck... even MJ couldn't.

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The Great Charles Barkley even said that if he could of played with the Dream or any other superstar while they were both in their prime, he would have a RING.
I don't see any reason why he wouldn't have!
As long as they both know their roles, 2 great players are always gonna be better than 1 , just simple mathematics

ROckS

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wow. you sure got a response on that one francis90210. yes. duncan-robinson. jordan-pipsqueak. bird-mchale. magic-kareem. [insert your own]: mega star-complementary all-star. francis-shareef. aw yeah.

any dissenters?

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he shakes.. spins baseline.. fades away.. oh.. he buries the dreamshake again! what a move!

 

I gotta ask you guys just how many guys in the league you would consider a "star" - it seems very subjective. I would assume we would all want a star who is not a guard, since that position looks so solid. So exactly how many frontcourt players out there fit the title "star" in y'all's opinion? How many come out each draft? DerMarr Johnson and Jerome Moiso may sound great as they enter the draft, but guys like that enter the draft every year. If they all panned out, this league would be littered with stars. Also, I don't know if just any frontcourt star would be a good fit with this team. Gary Payton + Vin Baker (he certainly looked like a legit star when they got him) isn't working out that great. Kenny Anderson + Derek Coleman (#1 pick, serious talent, serious #s) didn't light up the league. Van Exel + McDyess ain't getting the Nuggets anywhere, though they're young. There are better, more analogous examples out there that I just can't think of off the top of my head, but it just shows that out of the pool of "star" frontcourt players that are out there, there are even fewer that might really make this team great. Moreover, the availability of these stars is really small - young stars even more miniscule. I get the feeling that Philly was looking for their froncourt "star" to pair with Iverson when they were shopping Larry Hughes. They got Tony Kuckoc - frontcourt "star"????

I wonder if we couldn't get an out and out star, if we could get some talented players (maybe not stars in their own right) that would thrive in a system built around Francis and Mobley's penetration if this team couldn't take it to another level with a few years of continuity. The '94 Rockets did it, but then, Mr. Olajuwan was a VERY, VERY special player. I don't know if Francis is that special.

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We definetely need a second star.
1. Every championship team since the 80's has had at least two stars (Bird-McHale-Parish, Magic-Kareem, Dr. J-Moses, Isiah-Dumars, MJ-#33, Duncan-David, Dream-Clyde) except Dreams 1st championship. That is a pretty good indication you need another star.
2. We need someone there who can carry the team for a night (foul trouble, illness) or an extended period of time (injury) to maintain a good playoff seeding.
3. You need the second player who can run the team when Francisd needs a break during the game.

I sincerely believe we need another. Maybe Mobley eveolves into another goto guy, but I personally thin we need a PF or a C.

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I also believe that having another star on the team would be a huge plus in the championship hunt.

oakdogg

I think you make a good point about defining what exactly a "star" is. In my opinion, it's important to seperate a "superstar" from a "star". A "star" is someone that you can count on to give you good consistent production (maybe 17 ppg with adequate to above average defense) night in and night out. A "superstar" is someone that can carry a whole team on his back on both ends of the floor.

In 94, Hakeem was a superstar. There was no one in the league that could contain the man and no one that wasn't at least a little hampered by his defense. This is why he could carry a bunch of above average role-players to a championship. Also, keep in mind that his crew of second tier players were likely the best defensive team in the league both in team and man-to-man D (e.g. Mad Max was one of the few players in the league that could contain (not shut down) Jordan).

Presently, Francis is only a star. He may improve and become a superstar, but he still has a lot of work to do (remember, Hakeem wasn't a superstar his 1st year either). Also, our team's defense is still very weak. This is why another consistent star would only benefit this team, as long as we don't get a head-case or a prima dona (that means no Riders folks ).

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Yes thats true in most cases . But what about 1993-94 ? We had Dream in his prime , Robert Horry , Sam Cassel ,Otis Thorpe , Mario Elie , Kenny Smith , Carl Herrera . We had an outstanding year . Next year we started out crappy sent Otis Thorpe Packing and Got Clyde Drexler and turned the season around . (And won a championship)
Its not so much as how many good players you have (New Jersey for instance) But what they do for your team .

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Dont do today what you can put of until tomorrow

 

We already have a new star-in-waiting.

His name is Cuttino Mobley.

What we don't need is someone who will take away shots from Cuttino. But if we find a star PF who primarily gets his points from put-backs and offensive rebounds and the occasional post-up then I'm all for it.

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RocketFuel is taking the summer off!

 

Haven,
how can you say my man Stevie wont be better than Payton in him prime? Steve may not have beaten him in his match-ups against him but he got close and had his moments. He's only going to get better and I think his looks alot brighter then what Paytons did.

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Walt the Wizard Williams. "The aging Terrapin from Maryland"

 

Point guards usually don't reach their primes for a few years. By the time he's 27, he may very well be better than Gary Payton ever was... but not in the next 2-3 years.

Realism is good.

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