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Why so serious...winners and losers of health-care reform.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Northside Storm, Mar 23, 2010.

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  1. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Member

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    Honestly, I haven't seen such a bigger stacked deck...ever in terms of emotionality.

    WINNERS
    Children (Starting six months after enactment, requires all health insurance plans to maintain dependent coverage for children until they turn 26; prohibits insurers from denying coverage to children because of pre-existing health problems. Even cuts the deficit, as an added bonus for the citizens of tomorrow.)
    Seniors (Begins narrowing the Medicare prescription coverage gap by providing a $250 rebate to seniors in the gap, which starts this year once they have spent $2,830. It would be fully closed by 2020. NOT subjected to death panels. Provides Medicare recipients in the prescription coverage gap with a 50 percent discount on brand name drugs; begins phasing in additional drug discounts to close the gap by 2020.)
    Poor People (Sets up a high-risk health insurance pool to provide affordable coverage for uninsured people with medical problems. Covers the majority of the (now) uninsured. Medicaid expanded to cover low-income people up to 133 percent of the federal poverty line, about $29,300 for a family of four. Low-income childless adults covered for the first time.)
    Disabled People (Creates a voluntary long-term care insurance program to provide a modest cash benefit helping disabled people stay in their homes, or cover nursing home costs. Benefits can begin five years after people start paying a fee for the coverage.)
    Small Business (Provides tax credits to help small businesses with up to 25 employees get and keep coverage for their employees.)
    The "small" underdog vs the "big, evil" corporation (Bars insurance companies from putting lifetime dollar limits on coverage, and canceling policies except for fraud. Prohibits insurers from denying coverage to people with medical problems, or refusing to renew their policy. Health plans cannot limit coverage based on pre-existing conditions, or charge higher rates to those in poor health. Premiums can only vary by age (no more than 3-to-1), place of residence, family size and tobacco use.)

    LOSERS
    Tanners (Imposes 10 percent sales tax on indoor tanning.)
    Big Pharma (Imposes $2.3 billion annual fee on drugmakers, increasing over time.)
    Insurance Companies (Duh)
    People with ridiculous plans (Imposes a tax on employer-sponsored health insurance worth more than $10,200 for individual coverage, $27,500 for a family plan. The tax is 40 percent of the value of the plan above the thresholds, indexed for inflation.)

    This is honestly like...

    Winners

    [​IMG]

    vs

    Losers
    [​IMG]

    If the Republicans want to get down on this bill and break it into simple human emotionality, the Democrats have to respond. All the ammo is on their side. Yes, this is hyperbolic, but it's clear hyperbole works. I sincerely hope the President and his party will implement this bill effectively and also manage to trumpet this well enough since they have everything to gain by clarifying who benefits and who loses.
     
    #1 Northside Storm, Mar 23, 2010
  2. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Actually, put insurance companies in the win column. That's why all their stocks went up yesterday. It's not my favorite part of the bill... that they were so happy with it.
     
    #2 B-Bob, Mar 23, 2010
  3. cdastros

    cdastros Member

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    Insurance companies went down yesterday. Look at UNH and its comparable companies in the link below.

    http://www.google.com/finance?q=NYSE:UNH
     
    #3 cdastros, Mar 23, 2010
  4. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    Insurance Companies win. More people will be buying insurance, and it will be subsidized by the government.

    I am poor, but am not a winner. There is no change for me. My employer is the one that benefits.

    Losers:

    People that didn't maintain coverage, because they didn't need/want to.

    I'm not sold on the federal deficit not get worse because of this. Something more has to be done to keep skyrocketing Health Care Costs.
     
    #4 juicystream, Mar 23, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2010
  5. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    I absolutely agree that more has to be done, but this is a step in the right direction. These changes are better than the status quo. I haven't heard any proponents of this bill saying that the job is done and the American health care system is now completely fixed.
     
    #5 Steve_Francis_rules, Mar 23, 2010
  6. Cannonball

    Cannonball Member

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    While I generally support the bill, I have friends that just plain don't want health insurance. It's too expensive for them now and it's still be too expensive after the passage of the bill. They'd rather pay the $700 penalty per person for not having coverage and pay out of pocket for medical expenses. So those people lose as well.
     
    #6 Cannonball, Mar 23, 2010
  7. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20100323/cm_huffpost/509206
     
    #7 juicystream, Mar 23, 2010
  8. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    Until costs are brought down, I think we all lose.
     
    #8 DonnyMost, Mar 23, 2010
  9. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    I have no sympathy for those people unless hospitals were allowed to deny treatment. Those people go to hospital, can't pay their bills, and the ones that can pay have to foot the bill.
     
    #9 rockbox, Mar 23, 2010
  10. Cannonball

    Cannonball Member

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    They pay their bills, just not through insurance. For them, it's cheaper that way.
     
    #10 Cannonball, Mar 23, 2010
  11. BetterThanI

    BetterThanI Member

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    And what happens when their medical expenses exceed their ability to pay? John Q. Taxpayer ends up footing the bill, and they end up free and clear. Sorry, but that choice is no longer a viable option for these United States. It's time for EVERYONE who can to share the burden.
     
    #11 BetterThanI, Mar 23, 2010
  12. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    For now it is, but nobody knows when they will be struck with catastrophic illness or injury. It's a sad fact that everybody is going to use their insurance eventually and nobody knows when that time will come.
     
    #12 Batman Jones, Mar 23, 2010
  13. Dave_78

    Dave_78 Member

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    Your friends must be under 30 years of age.
     
    #13 Dave_78, Mar 23, 2010
  14. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    You don't get off free and clear. You are still liable to the hospital. The only difference is you can go back to this creditor even with an outstanding balance.
     
    #14 juicystream, Mar 23, 2010
  15. Rip Van Rocket

    Rip Van Rocket Contributing Member

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    You never know when you are going to need med insurance, but almost everyone needs it at some point in their lives. I know people who will never voluntarily pay for health insurance, because they just go to the emergency room when they need too see a doctor. Of course we all pick up the bill when they say they can't pay.

    I agree. Who is going to be willing to make less money-the doctors, the hospitals, the drug companies, the insurance companies?
     
    #15 Rip Van Rocket, Mar 23, 2010
  16. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost Member
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    Another question to consider.

    Who should make less money-the doctors, the hospitals, the drug companies, or the insurance companies?
     
    #16 DonnyMost, Mar 23, 2010
  17. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    You could interpret that in a number of ways, I actually think this is the beginning of the end for them, but that their stocks went up because, for the short to mediumm term, at least, the heat is off.
     
    #17 SamFisher, Mar 23, 2010
  18. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    The thread title should be Winners and Whiners.
     
    #18 Deckard, Mar 23, 2010
  19. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    I've never met anyone like that. I know a lot more people that are actually on Medicaid that go to the hospital because its free. I think its a major issue with that program.

    In a perfect world, the insurance companies would break even. The drug makers hopefully would make less. I don't think Hospitals tend to make much money. Doctors its hard to say. Specialist make an incredible amount of money, whereas most in general practice make a very reasonable salary, IMO.
     
    #19 juicystream, Mar 23, 2010
  20. conquistador#11

    conquistador#11 Member

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    I dare you guys to listen to more than 10 minutes of conservative talk radio. I couldn't get past minute 6.

    By the way, great use of the shawshank redemption.
     
    #20 conquistador#11, Mar 23, 2010
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