And 80s' games physical? In 1987, when MJ got 37.1ppg, the league averaged 109.9ppg, .480fg. 3pt fg is .301, ft .763. In 2008, these number are 99.9, .457, .362, .755 3pt and ft % suggest today's players have better fundamental and can shoot from distance. On the other hand, ppg and fg% suggest 80s' league were playing a a much faster pace, shooting a much better 2pt%. In a league where averaged team scored as much as Suns of last several years, how would you call it physical? If anything, today we have defense specialists like Artest/Bowen/Battier. In 80s and 90s, only Pippen come close. I know many people will bring up handcheck. But if handcheck is a bigger deal than zone, why we are not seeing higher ppg and/or fg%?
Because the 80s were much higher pace, teams like the Texas Triangle (including good old Houston) are slow as hell now. But you'd have to be blind to argue the 80s was less physical just because more points were scored. Dude. Watch the highlights. Now, you get flagrant 2s for wrapping your arms around some guy's neck; back then an entire team took down Micheal...no suspension, no flagrants and just two at the line. A beautiful video illustrating this... <object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/dxBhQKtG2Zo&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/dxBhQKtG2Zo&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
You know what? Jordan kept taking 2pt jumper in the paint, single coverage. That's as soft defense as you can get. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkBlJoFONY4 MJ's 63 points game against Celtics, am I blind or I didn't see any double before MJ got into the lane. And his defender is so soft it's not even funny compare to Bowen or Artest you'll get today.
MJ is the greatest ever and you have a good video here, but it exaggerates to an extreme. Not every team in the NBA played defense like Riley's Knicks. MJ didn't face this every game. While this video shows some of the defensive techniques used back then that are illegal now, the first quarter of that Bulls/Knicks game was not an accurate representation of what NBA basketball was like in the 90s. The Knicks were a blot on the league. The announcer himself said the Knicks led the NBA with 37 games under 100 points while the Bulls had only 7, 3 of which were against the Knicks. Bottom line: That video is more of an illustration about how Riley's Knicks dumbed down basketball than it was of NBA basketball in general. Actually, I can't blame Riles for telling his players to grab and hold if the refs weren't going to call it.
You are blind. Boston didn't play MJ too close on the perimeter since his jumpshot wasn't so creditable way back when, but you'll notice everytime MJ is in the paint, there's a swarm (no defensive 3 seconds). 0:20-0:26 Three man trap on the baseline (McHale comes for the help but is too late) 0:42-0:44 Jordan rebounds over three Celtic defenders (Parish being the big) and lays it in. 0:54-0:58 Boston defender hand checks Jordan to keep him out of the paint, then he collides with Bill Walton's huge frame as Walton tries help defense. Gets the And1. 1:00-1:04 Boston defender hand checks Jordan. Then McHale and Parish come out of the paint to challenge Jordan...another triple trap. Jordan sticks it in anyways. 1:07-1:10 Bird plays help defense, as he shadows in. Too late though, Jordan has already released an ultra-quick jumper. 1:10-1:15 Bill Walton hand checks Jordan in an attempt to drive him away from the paint. Jordan drives in anyways and four Boston players (including Bird, McHale and Walton) collapse immediatly on him. Jordan scores. 1:20-1:28 McHale tries to stop Jordan now. Jordan drives by him and is immediatly challenged by Bird and Parish (who is a bit late). Jrdan flushes the dunk down. Not only that, but there's almost always help defense shadowing Jordan if he steps anywhere within 15 feet of the net. True, he's left a bit open on the three point line, since at that point in his career, he wasn't known as a great shooter. Still, the handchecking and pushing that you can clearly see shows that even that iso defense wasn't nothing to laugh at either. Now, I've spent way too damn long writing crap about this. And it had the Soulja Boy song in the back, which makes me feel like murdering someone. Come on dude, it's painfully obvious that you're trying to convince God knows who that Kobe is better then MJ. He's not. Any rational basketball fan will tell you that.
What would you prefer, be swarmed in the paint, or 20ft and beyond? Compared what Kobe faced in his 81 pts game, it's not even close. It's funny people keep saying MJ will score 100 in today's game and in reality played a short nonathletic white guy single coverage 16 ft beyond.
http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0521/nba_g_kbryant1_412.jpg Isn't this a handcheck too? Bowen played like this all series long and Kobe seemed to get 11 ft in 5 games. Well, so gone the handcheck excuse.
Did you watch basketball back then? Yes, today's NBA has defensive specialists. The NBA used to have enforcers! Bowen and Battier taking charges and flopping isn't exactly comparable to guys like Charles Oakley and Kermit Washington policing the paint. I think the Utah Jazz are the only team in the league that somewhat reflects what the NBA used to be like, but they're soft in comparison too.
Um...Kobe's 81 points display was probably the most pathetic display of defense I have ever seen, displayed by one of the worst teams that have ever played. ...But yeah, way to compare the Chris Bosh and Mike James led lottery Raptors to the Larry Bird/Parish/McHale/Walton/DJ dynasty, it makes your argument much more stronger. And you made fun of white people too. Double bonus!
Reality is cold, isn't it? Raptors didn't play any quality defense but they did play box and 1 and double Kobe 20ft or beyond at time. I didn't see a single instance of that in MJ's 63 points game.
I'd just like to say that this is a good point. The video does show extremes and it might not've been a trend that was reflected throughout. But seriously, anyone who saw the Bad Boys, these Riley Knicks and the Jordan Rules cannot argue that the era was "soft" in anyway.
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What does this mean? So Kobe didn't shoot contest jump shot. Yes, that's call shot selection. Check MJ's 63 games, how many are contested? And shouldn't FT counted as contested bonus shots? I just don't buy into this you can be fast paced and physical crap. Contacts are minimum when you play fast break a lot.
Kobe didn't shoot contested shots because there was no defense. Toronto was DEAD LAST in team defense that year. Dead last. And no, free throws aren't contested shots...:/ And yeh, I dunno if you noticed this, but when flagrants tend to happen is when the other team is on a fast break and you just throw the guy down to stop him. Now imagine that x2 or x3 considering the pace, lax rules and the outlook of the NBA players of that era...
Are you serious? The handcheck was HUGE! You show one photo and, BINGO!, "gone the handcheck excuse". Give me a break! The handcheck is one thing that definitely separates today's NBA game from the past. There is no debate on that point. The NBA had a reason for making the rule change. At the same time, nobody handchecked and held like Riley's Knicks, including the Bad Boy Pistons. Daly's Pistons were more about shoving/pushing, cheap shots, hard fouls and intimidation. I didn't like them but their games were not horrible to watch on TV.
Yep, I guess if you are fouled all game long, you faced 0 defense according to your criteria. I saw Kobe got clothelined once by Bell. Show me who did that on MJ. Yes, you can double team a player without being physical, but that doesn't mean it's softer defense.
I just don't see it gets called, particularly in playoff. Pistons used to talk about "Jordan rules". But wasn't it just some sort of borderline zone defense without getting caught?
