There have been quite a few science related topics on this board lately. I just want to post another one that has bothered for years: why materials come into life? As we know, all things in the universe tend to stay in their lowest energy forms. Water flows from high to low, planets take the form of a sphere. Even down at the atom and quantum mechanics level, atoms, electrons and other particles all stay in their lowest energy level form. EXCEPT the life cells! They are the only entity that we know of that go against this law of nature. It takes a lot of energy for a cell build the organic materials and keep them from being destructed, all the while taking in energy and releasing waste. Not to mention the process of producing the blueprint for reproduction - the DNA. Such a form of being is totally against the law of lowest energy form. It's like a sand castle erecting in a desert on its own and never falls, or a perfectly shaped pyramid coming into form natually on the surface of Mars - only the life form beat both of those odds by millions! Think about it, if scientist discovered a pyramid on Mars, what's your first reaction? Wouldn't it be "there has to be life on Mars!"? Because things like that just don't form naturally. But, when it comes to the origin of life, most of us are convinced that it simply "evolved". Isn't that ironic? I am a believer of evolution. But, things like this just boggles my mind.
(Warning, could spin into D&D) I don't have any answers, I'd just like to add that ideas like this are why I think it is silly for anyone to argue with certainty that we know how we (humans or the universe in general) came about and that there is or isn't a God (or other higher power). I'm a Christian btw... Just as a goldfish or a panda can't comprehend the size of the world/universe and think like a human, it's almost certain IMO that there are things about life that humans just certainly cannot comprehend. We can have a pretty good idea about what we know, but what if what we are capable of knowing is only a portion of the reality?
Origins of life may be difficult to comprehend to those of us too lazy to study biology, physics and chemistry, the origin of religion and belief in a God in previously illiterate, agrarian, undemocratic societies isn't.
I guess I don't understand the concept of lowest energy form. Mass=energy. Energy is neither lost nor gained. Just transferred from state to state.
You answered your own question when you said, "all the while taking in energy." Life doesn't exist as a closed system. There is a constant input of energy that drives the processes. There isn't a single physical law that is violated in the process. Atoms and electrons don't stay in their lowest quantum states when energy is added. When there is no more energy added they fall down to the ground state. We die. And as for the pyramid analogy, it's not as if life as we know it now sprang forth like a pyramid from dust. Seems like a pretty faulty analogy, no?
To add to the previous question. From an atomic level, is nuclear fusion or nuclear fission going to the lowest energy state? Both happen in the universe, so how is lowest energy state a law? A natural law implies everything adheres to it.
I think you are asking about a few things, gravity, entropy and complexity. Energy and matter are constantly moving throughout the Universe and the interaction of the laws of physics don't lock those into remaining in their simplicist forms. For example how hydrogen molecules end up coalescing and igniting in a star that then creates heavier elements. For something more observable just look at how a crystal forms. "Life" might just be a progression of matter and energy that happens when the right conditions are present like a star or a crystal.
"As we know, all things in the universe tend to stay in their lowest energy forms." Uhh...where did you get that statement from?
I know. I think the dude is stoned. If a living organism is special because it can eat matter and energy, well, a black hole eats matter and energy, too. A black hole is a freaking eating machine....and gets more and more powerful...it is h u n g r y.
Yea that's the funny/scary part that you can get as scientific as you want and crack as many cases as you can, but when you want to get to the bare origin, something else must have happened beyond human effect/work.
I may not know the details, but I think I already had a good idea that humankind wasn't behind it all.
Lol that's my point that we aren't behind everything. Not to bash anyone here but how can some of the most corky of things in life just be called "coincidence"?
Corky? I have no idea what you're on about. You initial statement seemed to be saying that people think that humankind started the whole universe, or maybe just life itself. As humans are alive, that seemed a bit funny to me. And I'd like your definition of "coincidence" if you have the time.
Think about it, if scientist discovered a pyramid on Mars, what's your first reaction? Wouldn't it be "there has to be life on Mars!"? Because things like that just don't form naturally. But, when it comes to the origin of life, most of us are convinced that it simply "evolved". Isn't that ironic? If you could look at the billions of billions of planets around every star in the universe for all time, for all the 14.5 billion years past and as long as it exists in the future, you would probably see a spontaneous pyramid.... where any concurrent observers would either think it's a perfectly natural event or that is was divine in it's creation. Our consciousness could be natural, common, fantastically rare or divinely created. We don't know because we only exist with this one tiny frame of reference in time and space. The one thing we know is that life is at least possible, because we are talking about it.
I think you're mistaken lowest state with the most stable state. As, the universe stabilize, it's the process of stabilization that causes disruptions. Think of it this way; when you throw a rock into a pond, you see energy in the form of ripples. From the initial splash, that energy must "do something" in order for the water to stabilize. Say microscopically, for one nanosecond, that transfer of energy (or disruption) is use to create something "different" in the water. Now multiply that by a scale billions, with the splash being the big bang and you get an idea.
