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Why is Foreign Policy an advantage for McCain.

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008.

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  1. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    The guy has numerous times confused Shi'ite and Sunni. He's stated that Iran was training Al-Qaeda, He talked about withdrawing troops from IRaq and got the number troops wrong. When the correct numbers came out, he still held on to his position, even though the math showed he was wrong.

    He talked just the other day about the country of Czechoslovakia and then did it again. There hasn't been a Czechoslovakia since 1993.

    How is this an advantage over Obama who has shown that he knows the names of nations, more about actual troop numbers in Iraq, more about understanding the goings on in the part of the world where our wars are happening, and has shown leadership in the areas of focusing on Afghanistan, striking terrorists in Pakistan if they won't act etc.

    It is amazing to me how much of a free pass McCain gets on foreign policy when he has been wrong time and time again.

    If Obama made the same mistakes about Shiia and Sunni, or not knowing the troop levels in IRaq and claiming that they were less than they really were, people would be slamming him as naive, inexperienced and not up to the job.

    Yet McCain is still seen as have a strength and advantage in foreign policy.
     
    #1 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  2. sook

    sook Rookie

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    Mccain has also said he doesn't know jack about the economy and everyone completely forgot about it, also he didn't know what imperialism meant during one of the debates
     
    #2 sook, Jul 16, 2008
  3. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    If you're willing and eager to blow things up good in other countries, somehow that makes you a foreign policy expert in America.
     
    #3 durvasa, Jul 16, 2008
  4. sook

    sook Rookie

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    1001th post srry to hijack I'm feeling rather proud atm :p
     
    #4 sook, Jul 16, 2008
  5. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    So you count a handful of verbal slippages as being more important to his foreign policy credentials than his decades of service in the Senate, his time on the Senate Armed Services Committee, his time in the Navy, his foreign policy legislative experience, his countless trips abroad to meet with foreign dignitaries... and on top of all that, he had the strength of character to stand up to public opinion and do what was right for our strategy in Iraq -- the Surge. And he has subsequently proven to be 100% correct on that issue.

    This thread is just illustrative of the type of logic the crazy zombies will stoop to. Obama has no experience, no judgment, and no strength. He doesn't deserve to stand on the same stage as a war hero and policy veteran like John McCain. Why don't you respect the man's experience, instead of trying to impugn it because of a few slip-ups during speeches. no cred...

    Does Obama's liberation of Auschwitz (snicker) count as foreign policy experience. Hilarious...
     
    #5 El_Conquistador, Jul 16, 2008
  6. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    If you would like to compare side by side we can do that. I won't make any judgements about how the events turned out. Just present each candidates position.

    Iraq - McCain was for it, while Obama was against it.

    The Surge - McCain for it while Obama favored putting those trips into Afghanistan

    Pakistan - Obama favored taking action against the terrorists residing there. McCain called that naive and dangerous
     
    #6 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  7. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    1. He was elected in 2004 the war was in 2003, how was he against it? What did he do to stop it?

    2. Obama also wants to reverse the surge and pull them back to previous levels or smaller correct?

    How has he shown leadership?
     
    #7 Bandwagoner, Jul 16, 2008
  8. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    I want to pick out this particular lie to highlight. Obama was not in a position to vote on the authorization to go to war in Iraq. He wasn't in the Senate yet. He said in 2004 that he didn't know how he would have voted on the Iraq war: http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9F04E0DA1430F931A15750C0A9619C8B63

    Indeed, reporters asked Mr. Obama about the Democratic presidential ticket throughout the 2004 campaign, because Senators John Kerry and John Edwards had both voted for the Iraq war resolution. In an interview with The New York Times in July 2004, he declined to criticize Mr. Kerry or Mr. Edwards over the Iraq vote, but also said that he would not have voted as they had based on the information he had at the time.

    ''But, I'm not privy to the Senate intelligence reports,'' Mr. Obama said. ''What would I have done? I don't know.

    "I don't know" is what he said. Is that leadership? Nope.

    You think this foreign policy flip flopper and weakling is worthy of commanding the most powerful military force of all time?

    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/kcIeoSHTyCI"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/kcIeoSHTyCI" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

    GAME, SET, MATCH -- thanks for playing, rookie
     
    #8 El_Conquistador, Jul 16, 2008
  9. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It isn't a lie. I wasn't in a position to vote for it either but I was still against it. The fact is that Obama was against it. Whether or not he was in the Senate at the time doesn't matter. He could still be for it or against it.
     
    #9 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    how have you determined his position?
     
    #10 Bandwagoner, Jul 16, 2008
  11. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    Wrong. What you are doing is trying to refute Obama's own words. When asked in 2004 whether he would have voted to authorize force in Iraq, he said "I DON'T KNOW". Wow -- some leadership there. Kinda like voting 'present' on scores of bills in Illinois...

    The guy is just in over his head. Totally unqualified.
     
    #11 El_Conquistador, Jul 16, 2008
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    He meets with European diplomats and foreign leaders fairly frequently because of his position. They likely know McCain and what he brings much more than they do with Obama.
     
    #12 Invisible Fan, Jul 16, 2008
  13. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    1. Many people who were never in the Senate and couldn't vote one way or the other were in favor of the war or against it. Not being in the senate doesn't prevent someone from being for it or against it.
    He has shown leadership by being in favor of increasing troop levels in Afghanistan prior to the recent media coverage of setbacks there. McCain just jumped on board recently, and has been going back in forth on how many troops should be sent and where they should be sent from. From early on he was leading the call that Afghanistan needed help.

    He has shown leadership in stating that if we had actionable intel about terrorists in Pakistan and the the Pakistanis won't. He took heat from his own Democratic candidates, John McCain etc. However the course of action he talked about proved effective.

    He showed leadership by suggesting diplomacy with Iran and other enemies as a means to accomplish our goals. He was again ridiculed by McCain and some other Democrats as well. It turns out that diplomacy helped accomplish the first real progress in ages with N. Korea. Furthermore today despite attacking Obama's position today the Bush administration sent the #3 guy in the state department to attend diplomatic meetings with Iran.

    In all of these positions Obama has been ahead of the curve. McCain hasn't been in any of them.

    2. Yes, and it's a great idea.
     
    #13 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  14. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    From public statements he made at the time.

    This is from a speech he made in 2002.

     
    #14 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  15. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Because you are dealing with a hypothetical, and I'm talking about actual facts about what Obama is on record for saying at the time, and McCain's actual vote.

    Obama was against it, and McCain was for it.
     
    #15 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  16. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    Wrong again. We were not dealing with a hypothetical. We were dealing with Obama's own words. When asked whether he'd have voted for the war, he said "I DON'T KNOW". That's called weasel word language there, folks. Not leadership...

    Do you at least concede that Obama doesn't have 1/100th of the foreign policy experience that McCain has? Come on, that's so obvious.
     
    #16 El_Conquistador, Jul 16, 2008
  17. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    hahahhahahaha. Do you know what hypothetical means.

    Look at what I've bolded.
     
    #17 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  18. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    His own words: "I DON'T KNOW". Those are real, not hypothetical.

    You've lost the argument, rook.
     
    #18 El_Conquistador, Jul 16, 2008
  19. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    the words are real and are referring to a hypothetical situation. Words about hypothetical situations that never existed just don't match up to people's real words and actions.

    Again I'm dealing in the real world, and you are talking about a hypothetical.
     
    #19 FranchiseBlade, Jul 16, 2008
  20. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking
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    Obama's experience would be an example of a hypothetical. He has none. Now do you get it?
     
    #20 El_Conquistador, Jul 16, 2008
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