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Why I am not voting for Obama or McCain

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by rhester, Oct 31, 2008.

  1. rhester

    rhester Member

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    I have often stated that I am tired of politics. It is more than that, I am disappointed in the way politicians try to solve problems. I cannot agree with most of what I have read on Obama's and McCain websites. So here is my long tirade as to why I don't think either is the right leader for America.

    1. If there be righteousness in the heart,
    there will be beauty in the character.
    If there be beauty in the character,
    there will be harmony in the home.
    If there be harmony in the home,
    there will be order in the nation.
    If there be order in the nation,
    there will be peace in the world.
    - Confucius

    2. Character is doing the right thing even when it hurts. - rhester


    The problems in America have a root cause, all problems do. I believe that problems are a result of choices and choices a result of character. I have a premise that our nation’s problems can be traced to an underlying cause. When I look at the problems- economy, health, environment, crime, education, families, employment, national security, housing, drugs abuse, prejudice, injustice and others I want to know what is causing things to keep affecting more and more people.

    I am going to use all of my own opinion and draw from personal experience, but I believe some of what I want to post will at least explain why I have not got on board with politics like other do. I believe with all my heart that the American people, not all, but many have lost their good character.

    What is character? Character is the disciplines necessary to succeed: responsibility, honesty, diligence, patience, loyalty, meekness, love, justice, obedience, orderliness, self-control, kindness, endurance, courage, and forgiveness, initiative, thoroughness, sincerity, thriftiness, resourcefulness, wisdom, attentiveness, humility; these are just a few of the characteristics that equip a person for success.

    Personal character takes time to develop and determines the kind of society of people we become.

    We are a nation that should provide equal opportunity, access and justice to all people regardless of background, race, or beliefs; but whether we have opportunity and justice or not the one determining factor in the success of future generations is the character that is passed forward.

    A school teacher told me he has to pass about 30% of his failing students (those even slightly close) because there is so much pressure on the school district to get funds based on graduation rates. He said that he feels sorry for the kids because as he put it they come from bad home life. He said many students are at a disadvantage at school because they come to class undisciplined and with little character and work ethic. So he fudges their grades a little to pass them, but he admits he is setting them up for future failure.

    What he is telling me is good character is not being passed onward. Many children do not have the fortitude of character formed to overcome obstacles. Weak character does not serve us in the problems and disadvantages of life.

    Good character is not determined by our lot in life, poor or rich, east or west, race or background- character does not come from our circumstances but how we respond to our circumstances. Often times the most disadvantaged develop the highest personal character- they have a better opportunity because of their circumstances.

    You cannot legislate good character.

    Good character, a good home, a good school, a good workforce, a strong healthy nation: that is the long road to becoming a great nation.

    1. We must become the change we want to see. – Gandhi
    2. Responsibility means not expecting anything from others that I am not already doing myself. - rhester


    We have become experts at treating the symptoms of a problem. Crime increases so pass more laws, add more police, and build more prisons. Republicans and Democrats are equally ready and willing to ‘solve’ your problem without even knowing what is causing the problem.

    Before we fix anything else, we must fix character. It does no good to give a very foolish man a credit card. He will many times abuse it. There is no reason to give a very foolish girl contraceptive. She will many times end up unexpectedly pregnant. When we miss the root cause of problems we create cycles; cycles of abuse, cycles of poverty, cycles of broken lives. These cycles are just a result of trying to fix the symptom of the root problem.

    We no longer are willing to suffer through some hard times and endure trials for a better future. We have become a ‘bailout’ nation. The recent bank bailout confirmed to me that politics is all about bailouts.

    The term bailout itself is rooted in what happens when a ship is sinking. There are holes that need to be fixed but instead of finding the leaks and making repairs everyone expects someone to bail a bucket of water out of the ship and keep moving forward.

    Government programs have been watered down to various bailouts. Instead of solutions we are getting rescues. You cannot legislate personal responsibility but without it you cannot develop good character.

    1. Do not wish for quick results, nor look for small advantages. If you seek quick results, you will not reach the ultimate goal. If you are led astray by small advantages, you will never accomplish great things. – Confucius

    2. What we don’t earn and achieve rarely lasts. – rhester


    A quick fix gets a politician re-elected but rarely address the root of a problem. Good ideas can result in legislation that become quick fixes; increased teacher pay, money to burn opium fields, building fences for borders security. These seem good but do they get to the heart of the problems?

    I am not against laws at all. I am not against spending money or helping any need in our nation. I am not against government. I am against overlooking the fundamental need to build good character. Laws cannot change character. We need mentors.

    The government (even if they want to) cannot replace parents and mentors. Nothing replaces relationships. A government cannot legislate a good relationship.

    Mentoring takes time. Mentoring or parenting or training is not about getting quick results, it is about getting right results. Often times the government is trying to solve a symptom of a deeper problem. They attempt to remove the consequences of bad decisions.

    Psychologists call this enabling, helping someone live in a cycle of bad choices by rescuing them out of their consequences. Government doesn’t make a good enabler; People today don’t need legislation to build their character, they need personal healing. I like the word heal. It requires skill, involvement and personal touch to heal something.

    1. Let us also be full of joy now! Let us exult and triumph in our troubles and rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that pressure and affliction and hardship produce patient and unswerving endurance. And endurance develops maturity of character and proven integrity. - Paul the Apostle

    2. We must allow the consequences of our choices teach us or we will develop bad character. – rhester


    The rescue, the bailout, the victim mindset all cry out for someone else to come and save us. We no longer want to eat healthy and exercise; we want someone to write us a prescription to avoid the consequences of bad choices.
    Consequences are designed to get our attention. Consequences are hard teachers but when having to face the consequences of our choices we get the best chance life offers to build character. Politicians are afraid that if they cannot be the ones who fix our problems we will not vote for them.

    We have a desperate need in America to help people become responsible for their choices.

    Personal responsibility does not throw out compassion, caring and sympathy for others who are less fortunate or hurting. Personal responsibility is a process of healing. Personal responsibility works both ways; we are our brother’s keeper. It is hard to help someone up when you are laying down or worse looking the other way.

    It is true that many people are often the victim of circumstances beyond their control. There is no doubt that some of our national problems seem larger than any of us. Too often people are shut out of opportunity by no fault of their own. You and I must start to take responsibility to help others.

    At our church we spend 60% of our budget helping people up out of the gutter so to speak. But we don’t have programs for that or just hand them money. We give them our hands and we start lifting. We grip them with love. We take time and use patience to get them on their feet. We may pay their rent, medical bill or light bill but we don’t stop there, we mentor. It is a high price of time and energy to mentor but we train people to be productive and responsible and valuable. Success gives people self esteem and worth. That is what I call healing a life. Some people tell me it is like re-parenting.

    The first thing I looked for on Obama’s and McCain’s website was to see if their policy would result in people taking personal responsibility or would their policy just be more enabling from government? Most government solutions deal with fixing a negative consequence of a bad choice. Why was a bad choice made? Governments don’t work on that level.
    You cannot legislate good choices.

    Look at the list again:
    Responsibility, honesty, diligence, patience, loyalty, meekness, love, justice, obedience, orderliness, self-control, kindness, endurance, courage, and forgiveness, initiative, thoroughness, sincerity, thriftiness, resourcefulness, wisdom, attentiveness, humility.

    Many of these traits can only be learned in hard times.

    1. Do not wait for leaders; do it alone, person to person. - Mother Teresa
    2. The answer is simple, we must become good neighbors. – rhester


    Problems should teach us we need one another and that should pull us together. Today we have much division in our nation. Government programs are targeted to the special interests of those who vote. We don’t need to pull together because we can vote for our side.

    Good character teaches us that we need to be on the same side of a struggle, we need to work together to get the best solutions. We watch politicians cross party lines when they vote in Washington and we think that brings us close together as a people. Do you really think a compromise on the floor of Congress unites us as a people?
    Government cannot legislate unity.

    I am firmly convinced the greatest untapped power for change in America is neighbors helping neighbors.

    We need to be helping people, help people and you help society.
    I have thought these last few weeks how much can a community organizer do for a city’s problems versus the US president? We really don’t know. But I am convinced that what our nation needs more than anything is for people to become good neighbors.

    Good neighbors have a dramatic affect on those in need. Each of us can become change agents lifting others up, working with others. Good character is common ground for a majority of people.

    When I go beyond the patriotism of McCain and the idealism of Obama I have found the same old solutions, government trying to do for others what we the people must do for ourselves. We must take responsibility for change. Do not pass it off to Washington. What are you doing in your circle of influence?


    1. I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character. - Dr. Martin Luther King

    2. All good character starts with seeing the value in every person. – rhester


    Basically the long road to achieve good character cannot happen in a vacuum. Character must be understood, modeled and taught. Great leaders are not political. They must be hands on servants and leaders always sacrifice themselves for others. You can have a position but that doesn’t make you a leader. Leaders don’t have great plans; they inspire great ideas and principles.

    The first quality of good leadership is seeing the value in each person. Once we see the value in every person we have the mandate to serve. The government cannot legislate true serving.

    True serving does not expect any reward. True serving requires leaving your comfort zone. True serving doesn’t pass the buck. True serving doesn’t give up. True serving means the strong lifts up the weak, there are extra miles walked and sacrifices given. Being a servant must be hands on.

    Servant leadership is needed in Washington. We need leaders who walk among us, not sit in an oval room; modeling the next step in the process of becoming a great people, teaching good character, showing us how to solve our own problems.

    1. It is better to give than to receive. - Jesus Christ
    2. When you help someone else get ahead of you on the ladder of success, you reach the top. – rhester


    I think that politicians place too much importance on themselves, getting votes/re-elected and their image. I don't think government spending does as much good and people helping people. That is why I think good character is non-optional to our future success as a nation. While I was overseas I was told the best thing America exports is p*rn and Budweiser. It sounds comical, but we were once a nation that everyone else admired. We were trusted.

    We are not trusted today. We are not united as a people. We do not face our challenges we are becoming more and more a people of legislation. When governments have to make more and more decisions for its people something is wrong.

    My own heart wants to see others succeed. I want to help. I just firmly believe that we can do more together than all the congressmen and the executive branch put together. I would like to see that reflected in the campaigns. It is not.

    What I see is both sides telling us how they will fix things. Oh, I know they promise to partner with us, but it doesn't work that way. Give us equal opportunity and give us equal liberty and let us bear the responsibility.

    How will we know who we really are unless we have to solve our problems?

    Basically, I don’t see the platform of either political party going to the heart of the problems. I personally believe that both candidates have good intentions. At least I hope so. There are things I think are vitally flawed in both platforms.

    I know many of you with the best of intentions and far more intellect than me think President Obama is going to be this kind of leader- a change agent, a servant who inspires... then read the issues section of his website more carefully... I am firmly convinced it is politics as usual, just the other flavor.

    I once grabbed the thought in 2000 of 'compassionate conservatism', the promise of government serving people, getting out of the way so we could help each other. I have been so disappointed these last 8 years.

    I used to at least vote based upon the single issue I care for the most- abortion. But I am not sure I can this year. Some people say vote the lesser of two evils. I am not sure what that means anymore- what does that mean and what does it get you?

    "I would like to see one candidate stand up and say, I can't help you out! I have nothing to offer. The answers are painful. I can't be your savior."

    "But I will always be brutally honest no matter what it costs my career. I will not spend or borrow one penny we don't have. I will serve side by side with you not in Washington, but where you live. I will not ask one thing of you that I don't do consistently myself. I will suffer what you suffer, I will only reap what you can reap. My character will be the one on trial and transparent. I will lead this people by my example.

    That is good character.

    The first one with that heart, I will vote for.

    I remain undecided.
     
    #1 rhester, Oct 31, 2008
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2008
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    didn't you vote for bush, why did you think he had good character?
     
  3. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    So, you made a long post to say.....that you weren't voting?

    Ok, thanks for sharing.

    DD
     
  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    sorry rhester, you're a good guy, but i find it completely ridiculous of people who voted for bush to now be holding both of these candidates up to such lofty standards.
     
  5. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    Thanks for putting so much effort into your post, rhester. Obviously, I think you should vote for the Democrat, but I respect your decision not to vote for either one. :)
     
  6. krnxsnoopy

    krnxsnoopy Member

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    Not saying this about you, but I think a lot of McCain supporters are coming out these days saying they are voting for neither.

    I think it's their attempt on getting some of the undecided Obama voters BACK to the undecided. They're hoping this will tip the numbers in their favor. Again, not saying this about you but I've been noticing this happening a lot lately.
     
  7. ferrari77

    ferrari77 Member

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    Maybe he's learned the errors of his ways.
     
  8. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    There's only one candidate that is calling for healing and the nation to come together. There is only one candidate that is calling for all Americans to take responsibility for themselves and strive to better their community and society. There is only one that is trying to break the cycle of hate and suspicion in American politics.

    Barack Obama is that candidate
     
  9. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    actually addressing the problems you see that you've pointed out, the nation is full of drug addicts avoiding responsibility. do we have the character of past generations, maybe not. past generations have given us wealth to live on, the american ideal is to make it better for the next generation. we are coming to grips that that ideal is not always going to be kept. the only problem i see with my generations including myself is living beyond means. other than that, most people still want a job, they still want to provide, and they just want a slice of the american dream.

    problem is we haven't learned to sacrafice like past generations. but when enough people are in debt over their heads, enough people are evicted from homes they never should have purchased, then we will learn the fundamental traits of our forefathers who helped push progress further and further. and we aren't far from it.

    because this country isn't full of people with no character. its full of people who have been sold they a bunch of crap they don't need. but most of these same people are more than willing to get out and work to achieve. pardon me, but your post is no different from the usual right wing spill, people don't want to work, people don't want to sacrifice, people don't want to go without, and I believe you are dead wrong
     
  10. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Jesus would most likely be considered a socialist these days.

    I'm just saying...
     
  11. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    maybe..except the early church didn't ask the empire to be the Kingdom of God...they just created that reality themselves.

    i don't think any -ism captures Jesus Christ.
     
  12. rhester

    rhester Member

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    I voted for Bush and I am ashamed I did.

    I hope Obama proves me wrong, nothing would make me smile more.

    I am not a McCain supporter at all.

    I do oppose abortion and obviously I support smaller govt.

    The only candidate I supported was Ron Paul and I only did that on this site.

    I am just getting my opinion off my chest.

    I think we are dangerously putting too much faith in politics.

    And I don't believe personally that either candidate is separate from the special interests, powerful party politics, and money that drive government's roll in America.

    There are alot of special interests that are going to hold President Obama to pay back.

    The same goes for McCain if he were to win.

    I also clearly answered where I stand on what we need to do. We need to elect a leader that makes acheiving good character the top item on the platform.
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    even if i thought that was the problem, that is not the president's job. and even if it was the president's job the only way he/she could do this is by example.
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Rhester,

    Jesus is not running in 2008, maybe in 2012.

    ;)

    Of course he would not have time to take office being that the world ends in December according to the Mayan Calander.

    DD
     
  15. professorjay

    professorjay Member

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    I understand not liking the options, and how hard it would be to vote for someone you don't like just because you like the other person even less.

    But the winner of this election will effect you whether you like it or not. You can choose or let someone else choose for you. That is what will ultimately happen, there's no two ways about it.
     
  16. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    I voted for McCain beause I don't want one party in control of all branches of govermnent. I feel that is when government messes up the most is when one party has too much power and the best years in America area when the different branches are controlled by different parties.

    Also, would like everyone to remember, in your daily lives, the President probably affects your life the least of almost any other person you elect. Your local elections have a much larger affect on how your day to day life will be affected by politics.
     
  17. slcrocket

    slcrocket Member

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    This is essentially the point I was going to make.

    You're looking for a candidate who embodies your morals specifically - there's nothing wrong with that, I think we should all look that way initially. But when you don't find one, you look for one who most closely resembles what you're looking for, and, when you find one that looks better than another, you go with him.

    I agree with you that this election is not going to fix our problems...personally, I think things are going to get a LOT worse before they get any better, but I'd love to be wrong. But just because no candidate sums up what you believe adequately, you still have to voice your opinion...even if that means voting for a candidate (Ron Paul?) who probably don't win. That's your right and privilege, and a duty for every American.
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    I'm writing in "Rhester of the Clutchfans Party"
     
  19. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Not me, that guy can't even make up his mind.

    ;)

    DD
     
  20. Spacemoth

    Spacemoth Member

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    Your list sounds like a good criterion set upon which to judge any human being, Rhester. Unfortunately, neither Jesus Christ, Confucious, Mother Theresa, nor Paul the Apostle are running for president, nor are any saintly figures from human history.

    We have to make do with what we have, and to allow THAT Bush regime to continue on is the definition of "immoral" in my book. I didn't vote for the past two elections because I was disillusioned with the process, but this time I felt an obligation to. I couldn't in good conscience sit idly by while the world was brought to ruin. And it may yet be regardless of what we do today. Bush set us that far back. Nevertheless, what little power we have at least needs to be exercised in this instance, to try to turn things around before the situation becomes even more unsalvageable.
     

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