Why has it taken Israel so long?

Arafat is always asking for the suicide bombings to stop. A lot of good that does, too . The militant groups don't give a rat's ass what Arafat says....they will not stop. They keep saying they will continue to suicide bomb because Israel is killing Palestinian civilians. Seems to me the only civilians dying lately are Israelis. Yes, some Palestinian civilians die because of Israeli incursions which are caused by militants' suicide bombings in the first place. Palestine is currently a non-state with non-leadership and non-existent laws where militants roam free. How can you have a country with leadership who can't rule their own people or enforce security? As Sharon asked, just what kind of state is Palestine going to be?

The way I see it with this new policy is as long as the suicide bombings continue...Israel will re-occupy another piece of Palestinian territory. Since they won't be leaving until the attacks stop, then militants will have little room to operate. The militants have brought this situation on their own people. If they would just stop and allow for useful dialogue to resume, then the occupation would end that much sooner. But, they've blown that all too hell and now is not the time for dialogue after every bus bombing. Even so, Bush is preparing to present his plan to push for a Palestinian state and resumption of dialogue towards peace.

It will be interesting to hear what Bush has to say....I doubt it will help, though. Arabs are already dismissing the idea of an interim Palestinian state because they have never heard of such a thing done before and there is no precedence for it under international law. They just think Israel should heed their calls and stop the occupation, i.e. leave with no guarantees for militants to stop(and we know they won't) and zero guarantee for Israeli's safety and security. After all, most Arabs have been fighting the idea of an Israeli state since the beginning. Most still don't recognize the state of Israel. Who's to say they stop if Israel ends the occupation? Absolutely noone and that is the problem. I'm sure Israel, although they are not EVEN contemplating ending their occupation, is completely dumbfounded by these calls. Leaving now when militants are attacking Israel non-stop is not even realistic nor does it make any sense. Most Arab countries who do not recognize Israel(and some that do) don't seem to get or care about militants or suicide bombings, Israeli casualties, or Israel's security. So, I don't rightly care what they call for. They are obviously biased thinking if you flip a switch...it will all be over...which is certainly a wonderful concept if your not the ones under constant attacks by militant groups. The militant logic just doesn't make sense nor is it helping their cause or the people their supposedly fighting for. I think Arafat sees this in some vague way but there is little he has done to prevent attacks for whatever excuse he comes up with. His speeches are of little matter or help.

Yes, Israel has killed innocent civilians but their main goal is to strike the militants who strike them in order to uproot the terror which constantly strikes at Israel. They can't do that by sitting back and passively observing the situation...especially with Arafat not doing a damn thing about it.

So, let the militants create more misery for the regular Palestinian civilians if that's how they want it. They thought the occupation was bad before....now see how bad it gets. The West Bank and Gaza Strip are going to be so splintered when it's all over. I'm sure more innocent Palestinian civilians will die along with militants. And, I'm sure the suicide bombings will continue. I think militants know that you can't suicide bomb Israel into submission of their goals for an end to occupation and a Palestinian state. So, now it has basically just come down to setting off as many suicide bombs as possible to kill as many Israeli civilians as possible and also disrupt any possibility for resumption of political dialogue...which is completely unacceptable to anyone in a civilized world.

Last word...in my opinion....NOTHING excuses suicide bombing. There is NO justification for it. Anybody who believes there is doesn't deserve their life. Violence against Israelis has caused the occupation and suicide bombings are going to ensure it continues. How anyone can't see that...I don't know. It has basically come down to militants and those Palestinians(a majority) who agree with suicide bombings have basically backed themselves into a corner or a no-win situation that may never end. Yes, we all agree they can't live an open life, they can't go to jobs, they can't even walk around freely....but why can't they? Could it possibly be because they believe suicide bombing and more violence is the only way to get a Palestinian state? Yes. Could it also be that this has the reverse effect and only makes matters worse? Yes. Could it be they reap what they sow? Yes.

If there is no compromise on the side of the Palestinians and compromise by or reigning in or stopping militant groups, then there certainly will never be a Palestinian state because there is a lack of everything needed for a state to function....law, security, political dialogue, and compromise. So, while militants may be a minority, they are a barbaric minority of terrorists who abide by no laws or no true leadership and continue to inflict damage for not only their cause but, more importantly, the innocent Palestinian people.

 

Terrorists will win.Even in the usa.

You said that israel should instill martial law,curfews,take peoples guns away,and be a military dictatorship.Well,thats exactly what is going to happen inside the usa if small pox or suitcase nukes are released.

In order for the usa government to control choas and panic from a massive terrorist attack in the usa,these actions will be taken,and Ill for one ,consider this a losing war.

The terrorists want to take away freedoms,I guarentee you that the usa government has a plan in place should choas erupt(bank runs,crashing stocks,riots,etc.) to take our freedoms away and let the terrorists in a ironic way,get what they want.Victory.

Just remember,the antiaircraft tech that shot down a usa plane in February in Iraq was bought and paid for from china.

Humm,china supplying iraq,and you guys want Ming.Ok.

Also,its been on all the news channels,that 100 or so kegs are missing from russia and iraqi former scientists have said iraq has them.

I dont know about you,but Iraq hasnt used them yet.(even though bush says they will they still havent).But is it wise to provoke a crazy man like sadam who we know would use them if he was "being routed out" like Bush wants.

Bush and Rumsfeld got on the news 3 days ago and said they are using the cia to go in secretively and assasinate sadam.I guess no smart americans relized,that if you state this on the news,its no longer a secret.

Now,from sadams perspective,he knows the usa is trying to kill him.Dont you think in his mind,in SELF-DEFENSE he would want to kill whoever it is thats trying to kill him.Yes.Thats why you shouldnt be surprised if a suitcase nuke is set off in washington d.c. real soon.Like this summer.

Being in Houston,I know how easy it is for a immigrant to cross the rio grande and not be caught.Do you know how easy it is for a terrorist to bring a suitcase nuke across?Easy.In fact,I have found evidence that there is one in all the major cities already,and terrorists are just waiting for Bush to nuke first(which he will in order to prevent a long war or draft)and they will detonate them so to not look like the first provokers.

And one last thing.Bush has said "you are either with us,or with the terrorists",Agreed?.Well,China(ming) and Russia have already said they will not support Bush in his effort to assasinate sadam,yet Bush has already done the orders to do so.Ill post the long link if you want me to.I have exact quotes from english military officers saying "bush has summer madness" for wanting to invade iraq.

To summarize it,basically bush thinks if he doesnt get rid of sadam,sadam will nuke us,but what he doesnt know from drinking to much,is that the nukes are already here and the biggest sucker will be Bush.But bush really wouldnt know it since he is in d.c. and he would die when one is set off.

Why do you think there is a shadow government?

Oh,and the day China gets mad at the usa for attacking iraq this summer,expect Ming to be stuck in China all next year.And I also found out that china is about to invade taiwan,and you know what that means,no more Ming.

You guys are in for a very rude awakening.

 

Prove it!

In fact can you prove ANYTHING in your post?

 

Israel will re-occupy another piece of Palestinian territory. Since they won't be leaving until the attacks stop, then militants will have little room to operate. The militants have brought this situation on their own people. If they would just stop and allow for useful dialogue to resume, then the occupation would end that much sooner.

The militants *want* to bring this situation to their own people. As you can see, they are not worried about deaths, innocent or not. Their goal is to shatter the peace process, which is exactly what they are doing.

The militants want Israel dead. That means they have to make Palestinians and other Arab peoples hate Israel. How they do that is by forcing Israel to oppress the Palestinians.

Clever, eh?

Take over the land, institute Marshall law, get the suicide bombings to stop and then...and ONLY THEN start the peace process.

As to the original question, Israel CANNOT stop the terrorists this way. The terrorists will simply wait. As soon as Israel pulls out, they'll strike again. They've been doing it for years now. Suicide bombers don't need massive organization. Just one person with a cheap bomb. That kind of terrorism can't be stopped quite so easily. The only option is for Israel to never pull out, which is not viable in reality, or move ahead with peace regardless of the terrorist activities. Once they have set borders, don't let the Palestinians in - AT ALL - for a while. Solves your problem.

Israel has taken a first step in this with this new "fence" thing, I guess. But ultimately, the solution is to give them a freaking state so Israel can simply say "stay the hell out". They can't tell Palestinians to stay the hell out right now because they have nowhere to stay out of.

 

The irony is that occupation is the VERY REASON terrorists are doing what they are doing.

It's like having the same fight with your wife over and over and over again. The fight may be destroying your marriage and making you hate each other, but you are so frozen in place, so dead set on your position, you throw the baby out with the bath water.

Eventually, the love you had dies because neither of you were open-minded enough to actually try something different. You were both too stubborn to admit that you each played a role in destrying a marriage. Instead, you blame the other, get divorced and eventually get re-married to someone else and guess what happens?

You end up fighting about exactly the same **** with her because you never solved the real problem which is your attitude, not the person with whom you disagree.

Until one of the two decides that what they are doing simply isn't working and takes the brave step to alter their policy, even if it means some degree of suffering, this will not end.

I mean, even children are smart enough to know that if you keep poking at an open wound, it won't heal.

 

Of equal ironic value is that the reason those lands are occupied is past Arab aggression toward Israel.

The wheels on the bus go round and round...round and round...

 

Or maybe someone should report ShouldgetOdom to the FBI. He seems to have inside knowledge about what is going on . If he has proof that there are suitcase nukes in major cities in the US, then he is obviously someone the FBI should know about.

Of course, I think it's a bunch of crap. It could happen in the future, though. I think if they actually had a suitcase nuke...they would have used it already. Also, remember the guy arrested just recently for planning a dirty bomb attack. He talked about acquiring a nuke or building a hydrogen bomb with that major Al Qaeda operative(who is in US custody) who told him he should "think smaller". I don't think Iraq has a functional a-bomb, either, and that is what we are going to pre-empt and stop next year when we invade(which is almost a certainty that we are taking the fight to Iraq next year unless they let weapons inspectors back in).

 

ShouldgetOdom thinks we were all born on the moon. Of course terrorist groups would capitalize on wrecking this country if they had the capability to do so. Our government are employing guerilla tactics to ensure that we don't become the next Israel.

 

Change in the Middle East won't take place until both the Palestinians and the Israelis get more moderate and forward-thinking leadership. Sharon and Arafat are two old-time warriors who can't let go of the past. A new generation of leadership is needed in the Middle East.

 

True....but Jeff....Israel has de-escalated on several occassions for talks and the terrorists always use this time to wreak more death and destruction. When two sides can't agree on issues, then they need to keep talking until they can. Clinton and Camp David stopped...and terrorism and infitada started up. Israel was withdrawing and seeking a holding pattern when the Arab countries had their peace summit(aka land for peace deal). So, what happened? The terrorists chose to strike on a major Jewish holiday to disrupt the entire process. Not only that...but they struck on all the days around that day where some were disrupted by being caught. That is when Israel responded with extensive incursions. If your saying Israel should have just sat on the 29 dead bodies and countless injuries waiting for the next one...and the next....then I'm afraid that kind of compromise will leave you worse off. The problem here is the Palestinian side is not willing to compromise. Even if Arafat is sincere in his willingness to compromise(which is interesting because just today they sent the US Govt. a letter saying the right to return issue is no longer a requirement...but a just and fair solution for the refugees is), then the militants are not and, so far, have never been willing to compromise on anything. You think Israel should make every concession while militant groups continue doing what their doing? Yes, it is tit for tat...and tat for tit....but it really is one side who has tried to compromise before while the other just does whatever the hell they want with no compromise and no restraint. And, if your saying Israel hasn't tried to restrain or compromise in the past, then I'm afraid your mistaken. It has always come back and been flaunted in their faces with another act of terrorism....ALWAYS.

 

Just in case he decides to edit.

 

We better let the Chinese invade Taiwan so the Rox can get Ming then.

 

Is this feasible? Won't there always be the possibility of someone already in Isreal acting as a terrorist or someone getting in somehow or another?

Sadly, I don't think its long until the whole situation simply becomes accepting that a number of deaths will occur and therefore just trying to be the party that will end up killing more of the other side instead of preventing more deaths on their side.

 

I'm sure they already know about him . . . ever heard of <a href="http://www.howstuffworks.com/carnivore.htm">Carnivore</a>.

 

Surf: So your solution is...

I'm certainly not saying terrorism is ok. But, I'm not saying military retaliation is ok either.

A terrorist, in terms of mindset, is about on par with a screaming, shirtless redneck who gets arrested on COPS for getting drunk and beating the crap out of his toothless girlfriend. They have little or no education and live in abject poverty. They respond as any uneducated, poor person would: with violence.

The Israelis, on the other hand, should be smarter than they have been because they have what the Palestinians do not: wealth and education. They have it within their power to avoid the conflict by getting the hell out of the West Bank and closing off their borders.

As long as the Israelis occupy the West Bank and refuse to aknowledge that Jerusalem is a holy city to Jews, Christians AND Muslims, this will continue. Good or bad, that is just the reality. Unless it is in their plan to wipe out every Palestinian or to forcibly remove them from Palestine, there is no other alternative that will end the violence.

 

WHOA!!! Major stuff ---- Thats a freaky post there sir....

One question though-
Why would the terrorists wait till bush pushes the button? Wouldn't they just go right ahead and do it when they had the chance? Obviously they don't care what the outcome is. (whether it's their country being nuked or a arab holaucast = which would happen if we found out these countries supported terrorists nuking a american city - if that ever happens it would be the end of the MIDDLE EAST!

SIMPLY an ARAB HOLOCAUST.

 

With all due respect, your simplistic analogy shows that you have not studied the history of the Israeli/Arab conflict. The Israelis have tried peace, they have tried war, and they have even tried "turning the other cheek". None of their approaches have worked. The Arabs will not stop until Jerusalem has been retaken, and the State of Israel no longer exists.

The Israelis need to pick a border and seal it off. If Arabs want work, they can sneak into Syria and Jordan. Of course, the same people who called the Israelis "butchers" for defending themselves will compare Israel to South Africa (I can see the Liberal longhairs marching with their APARTHEID signs now). Israel no longer has any choice in this matter.