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Why do TMac and Yao have problems running the RA offense?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by crash5179, Feb 1, 2009.

  1. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    When RA first came to the Rockets I really believed that Yao and TMac would be the perfect players for RA's motion, open post offense.

    TMac is one of the better passers in the league and had been such a great, great mid range shooter. I thought it was a natural fit. Yao always seemed to have a great outside shot (especially from free throw distance), he is a good passer and tall enough to see all over the floor.

    Both players seemed like such a natural fit for RA’s offense but in fact neither has been able to run the same offense that was so unstoppable in Sacramento.

    I still have no clue why Yao is not a good high post player. Yes I know that Yao excels in the low post with his back the basket and a defender on his back but he certainly seems to posses the skills and natural ability to be just as effective in the high post. At least RA has put in some wrinkles that get Yao better position in the low post against players that are intent on fronting him.

    TMac is a different story all together. I think TMac’s problem is that he is just not good at running the RA offense. When TMac passes the ball it is almost always with the intent to get the ball to someone in scoring position, if he can’t pass the ball to someone with a chance to shoot he tends to just keep the ball himself. It appears to me that with out TMac the rest of the team will pass the ball around trying to get the defense out of position until the ball finds someone with a high percentage shot. TMac does not seem to understand running screens for people with out the ball in an attempt to get them open to receive the ball for a high percentage shot. He seems to stand around a lot with out the ball and he hangs on to the ball well into the shot clock waiting for someone to get into scoring position instead of passing the ball to get the defense out of position.

    This is why I like Wafer so much. He seldom holds onto the ball when he does not have a shot. The ball goes into his hands and he makes a decision to shoot, drive to the basket or pass almost immediately. This is not meant to say that Wafer is better than TMac. Wafer is and probably never will be an NBA scoring champion. We really have not had a big enough sample to determine what Wafer really is. As of today, Wafer has a better outside shot than TMac and is much more willing to attack the basket than TMac. Wafer could turn into yesterday’s news very quickly if he is unable to maintain his very good outside shooting or stops going aggressively to the rim or running the fast break but only time will tell.

    I guess my biggest concern for Yao and TMac is that they spent so much time in the non imaginative offense that JVG put on the floor that it is just too big of a mental block to run the more complex RA offense. I also think this is why ball movement has looked so much better when the second unit is on the floor or when TMac and sometime Yao are out of the line up.
     
  2. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

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    That is a good question.

    In my opinion this is because Yao and T-Mac are stars. Adelan's system was perfect for Kings because they really didn't have 'the guy;. Al those players were pretty much at similar lever and they didnt care if they are gonna take 10 or 20 shots a game They were unselfish. They didn't look to go to one guy most of the time. They just cut, ran their offense, and whoever was open - he got the ball.

    With Rockets it is pretty tough. I understand, Yao and T-Mac are unselfish, but. They are main guys, the most important people on this team. You want them to have the ball, and they want to take most of the shots.

    I think that is the problem. Rick's offense is not gonna really work in team which has their main, key guy.
     
  3. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    I don't know if I agree with that. CWebb was an MVP candidate almost yearly when he was with the Kings. When the topic of the best power forward in the league came up CWebb was always in the conversation.
     
  4. langal

    langal Member

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    Yao has some physical limitations. A high post guy would ideally be able to put the ball on the floor and faceup a little (especially versus another big guy) And while he has good passing instincts, he also has slow reflexes - which hamper his passing.
     
  5. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    One thing about that Kings offense is that you never knew who would be taking the last shot if one was needed. It might be Bibby, CWebb, Peja or anyone on the floor. Even Doug Christie was willing and able to take the last second shot. It made it hard to concentrate on any one offensive player.

    When the Rockets are closing out games the defense knows that TMac is going to dominate the ball until he takes a very low percentage shot or they will force feed the ball into the post to Yao Ming.

    I think the end of the Boston game showed the possibilitie when the defense does not know for sure who is going to take the last shot. It forces the defense to react to the ball and not concentrate on one or two players.
     
  6. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

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    I agree. Maybe Yao is too big, but he and high post are two different things.

    He is not a good midrange shooter and he is probably two slow.

    As for T-Mac, he doesn't like playing off-the ball and he doesn't cut. He has to have the ball in his hands.
     
  7. Jeff Who

    Jeff Who Member

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    That is what I am saying. They didn't really have 'the guy'.
     
  8. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    These may all be very valid reasons. I know CWebb was very good at putting the ball in the floor in front of his man while facing the basket. I guess I just assume that at 7'6" Yao can just turn and shoot if he is not going to pass.
     
  9. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Then I think the Rockets need to drop that mentality when Yao and TMac are on the floor because no one on the current team is any better than CWebb was.
     
  10. BetterThanEver

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    We don't have "The guy" either. We use the 3 stars and 2 roleplayers structure too. Artest =Bibby(worst of the 3) and Yao=Chris Weber(best of the 3).

    We could argue T-mac doesn't count, because he is in streetclothes usually. :)
     
  11. redao

    redao Member

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    Chris Webber was a much better offensive player than Yao.
     
  12. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    OUCH! :p
     
  13. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    Well, McGrady's easy. He's never been interested in burning energy cutting without the ball and has become increasingly reluctant to drive in general since joining the team.

    I'd add that few of the role players have been that committed or effective in making cuts either. This is probably the single biggest reason, along with the allegations that McGrady has been unwilling to support the offense on or off the court.

    Yao's a trickier one. He, Scola, and Hayes, have all shown that they can do well from the high post. All three are good at setting screens out high and are willing and able passers. Hayes, despite praise for his passing out there, can't be effective if he can't hit better than 5% from that range. With Yao, one issue is that he doesn't have the quickness to get rebounds after setting up high.

    The motion offense is far more utilized in college than in the NBA for a simple reason. It is a "socialism" offense that creates opportunities for the entire team. Great for college teams that lack a superior individual talent.

    In the NBA, though, half of every roster is full of guys that are used to being excellent singular scorers. That's why you normally see "capitalism" offenses in the NBA - inside out centered around an unstoppable talent like Dream. Outside in centered around someone like Iverson. The dominant individual creates the opportunities for others.

    These days, seeing a motion offense happens and works only in certain situations:
    1. No singular dominant offensive player: The Kidd-Jefferson-Martin Nets, the championship Pistons.

    2. A coach with total control and authority: Phil Jackson's triangle, Jerry Sloan's P&R. Gregg Popovich's high post offense.


    Our team doesn't fit either scenario. McGrady's too good of a talent to want/need the motion offense and Adelman's not strong willed enough to force the roster into it.

    Evan
     
  14. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    To be a quality High post player in the Read and react offense you have to be a triple threat, Yao is not able to drive the ball, so he is better on the block with an occassional turn at the high post when the offense is inverted.

    Tmac is just not convinced it is good for his game, though his skills are PERFECT for it.

    DD
     
  15. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Yao seems to run the offense just fine... plenty of ball movement with McGrady and Artest both out.


    You figure out who the ball-stopper has been.
     
  16. blender

    blender Member

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    I see the same thing. He's an excellent and often creative passer, but he hasn't shown me that he's capable of passing within Adeleman's offense.
     
  17. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Yeah I have thought this same thing. TMac has the perfect skills for running the RA offense but for what ever reason just seems unwilling. TMac seems to have the same skill set as CWebb had as far as his mid range game and ability to find and pass to the open man. That is probably why there is so much frustration when I see him just holding onto the ball and dribbling the clock out.
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    That is how he has played his entire life, and in his mind he has been very successful at doing it, so why change to a completely different style after 11 years....(sure you and I know the answer to that question) but does Tmac?

    DD
     
  19. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    and that is probably my single biggest complaint in regards to TMac. sometimes it is just best to move the ball in order to get the defense back on their heals and out of position. It does not always have to be an assist oppertunity.
     
  20. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    and there is the problem. :(
     

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