I just posted in the current Israel Palestinian thread. As I often do, I pointed out that virtually the entire world is against Israel's intransigience. The same was true of Bush's Iraq War. To me this seems to be telling and makes the US and Israel probably wrong. Only in the most unusual of cormumstances would I exect that it would be appropriate to back the US or Israel against this consensus. I also realize that world opinion doesn't mean much to most neocons or current Republicans and also to even many Democrats. I am wondering where this comes from. It is a mystery to me. I know that at any time there are crazy world leaders or countries, N. Korea, Qadafi, (although now he has apparently become a friend and will soon be judged sane), Sadam, etc. However, with the close to 200 countries in the world, the overwhelming majority would usually seem to have a pretty sensible opinon. Why do many Americans think that the whole world can easily be wrong and America is nearly always right, regardless of overwhelming world opinon? Do they think everyone else is dumb?, evil? what? Is this result of propaganda?, lack of foreign travel? Certainly in many parts of the US there are foreign born people who the locals should know are not evil or stupid? It is a mystery to me? Is this opinon that only your own country has all the right answers strictly an Amerian phenomena?
First off...I don't think that. History shows that no nation is always right. I don't think I know anyone...don't think I've met anyone...who would say that America is always right. I think you have an image in your head of a person who radically disagrees with you...and that person might not exist. But...I don't think it necessarily follows that just because everyone is against something, you should be against it, too...i'm speaking now in the abstract. Churchill was somewhat alone in his criticism of appeasement....but it's hard to argue years later that he wasn't "right." We know the majority is not always right, whether that be a domestic majority or an international majority. One should be able to act with some conviction at some point.
Or as RM says in Fog of War: When most of your traditional allies disagree with your position and say your actions are wrong, only incredible arrogance would sustain the belief that you are omniscient enough to be probably in the right.
States act in their own self-interest and we should not be bound like Gulliver by the Lilliputans of the world in the bounds of "world opinion." I could care less what the rest of the world thinks about us. I know that the Europeans are unable and/or unwilling to fight terror. I know that the international system is a failure and the real politik model (chaotic nation-states acting in their own best interests) is the only one that matters. We must chart our own course and let the world follow in our wake. Of course we are good! Our foreign policy is furthering our interests, which is good for Americans. So what is wrong with that? We aren't perfect, but we are on the side of good. To say otherwise is ridiculous on one hand and traitorous on the other.
glynch....im pretty sure you can say that every country thinks they are right. how often has china, india, pakistan, north korea, cuba, russia, the arabs or the israelis said they were wrong?
it would shatter our precious little egos if we found out the opposite were true. Our society, and almost all others, has a very simple bi-polar way of analyzing things. There is simply bad and good, and we sort things to be in either one or the other. Now, because we have egos, and we are taught in our history books that America is always good, and always right, and always does what is best for the world, we put ourselves in the "good" category. Anyone who disagrees will be thrown in the "bad" category. This is why Bush's quote, "You are either with us or against us," is such a prolific statement, because it represents all the bipolar minds in our country that we are good, and that there is only bad or good. Even in the face of evidence that what we did to go to Iraq was wrong, people continue to keep their head in the ground because it is extremely difficult to break out of the superstructure of how we see and process the world.
I don't think America is always right, but it predictably serves its own interests, usually. If you consider a country to be right based on serving its constituents interests (which I think is how to judge a country's "rightness"), America is way more right than wrong. Right and wrong also have very different meanings between a capitalist pig and a socialist pig, respectively. I tend to be pro capitalism, but do understand that capitalism and our democracy will not work for every nation. I think the US is making lots of wrongs lately, but you and I probably have very different ideas what constitutes a wrong. On the world opinion, I think there is a slight POV problem. It is like asking a Red Sox fan about whether the Yankees are right for trading for AROD. There has definately some friction lately between the US and a lot of other nations.
When it comes to international politics, the US has a "winners win" attitude. I believe a lot of this comes from our short history and our relatively successful military history. The US is a VERY nationalistic country. We're also a country that is regonally divided by politics. Take a look at the 2000 election returns by geography. The more metropolitan you are, the more likely you are to be liberal or progressive. Many small town folk, which is about half our voting population, are VERY conservative. They don't travel to foreign lands and they don't socialize with foreigners. They also are either fairly uneducated or educated in a very conservative environment. So, when it comes down to it, a great deal of the US has more in common with Isreal than they do with Europe. Very conservative, very nationalistic and militant, and easily suseptable to propaganda and groupthink.
To claim the US has one opinion while the 'rest of the world' has one opposite consolidated opinion is silly at best and misleading at worst. Certainly we can see that its easy for an 'everyday American' (if there is such a thing) to believe we are not 'imperialist' (few want to colonize Iraq or any other part of the planet), 'warmongering' (we don't WANT war despite believing certain situations call for military action), 'ignorant' (quite a few of us are pretty smart), 'uneducated' (see above), or 'unworldly' - meaning not having travelled (many of us have travelled extensively across the globe). In addition, we live in a relatively stable, democratic, prosperous country. Which is a stark contrast to some of the 'other' countries out there. Gee, real hard to see why we wouldn't just adopt a Somalian or Rwandan or Serbian view of the world ...
Imperialism does not...repeat and underline, NOT necessarily include colonizing other nations. It can and has, as I have pointed out previously, include the same measures Athens used when exapnading their "Empire"...That is to say, invading lesser areas whose system of government is contrary to yours, and does not allow you to profit from same, and implementing a system similar to yours thus ensuring your ability to generate trade with that region, and leaving. The rationale Athens tended to use in these instances was either removing a potential future threat or liberating the people. How many 'warmongering' nations in the modern world were comprised of a population that WANTED war? Their rhetoric was usually merely that they saw a need for war that the rest of the world did not. Ignorance, as it it seen in America by others has nothing to do with intelligence, and everything to do with being mypoically inward looking. Studies show that America is incredibly low, in general, in terms oof knowing much about the rest of the planet. That in no way stops America from having strong opinions about the rest of the planet, and often exporting same. That is the combination most other countries find troubling. And, yes, when others criticze our perspective, what they are really saying is that they wish we were more like Rwanda. Those are the only two options. While I would, to a degree, agree that few nations think of themseves as wrong all that often, few are as conviced of their omniscience as we are. Moreoever, fewer still export that opinion by force the way we do. QUestion: How many instances in the past 100 years, say, can you ( not just you HS, anyone) name where Nation A invaded another nation in the face of general opposition from the rest of the globe/region, what have you, and weren't the bad guys? And, while you're trying to think of one or two, how many doezen can you think of who did just that and WERE the bad guys? Final question: Of any of those who were the bad guys, how many do you think were comprised of peoples who thought themselves the bad guys at the time? Who said, Goldurnit, we're warmongers, and we're damned proud of it!" Whose governments didn't give them some rhetoric to buy into to justify the war at home, which later proved to be as easy to support as Saddam's nukes? Nobody is the bad guy in their own movie, but there are still bad guys out there.
While every country acts, or at least should act, in their own self-interests there is such a thing as enlightened self-interest. While its a comforting belief that America can do whatever it wants whenever it wants the reality is far different. We are a superpower but that power is bound by the need for trade and cooperation from other countries. Unless we are prepared to destroy the whole world the US has neither the means or the willingness to impose an absolute worldwide empire to serve our interests. We are powerful but not powerful enough to force every recalcitrant to cooperate. To that end we need allies and the goodwill of others to work with us to serve mutual interest. Al Qaeda is the best example since they are dispersed and hidden throughout the world. If our own actions and attitudes alienate others countries we will never be able to defeat them. There is being proud of your country and then there is being smart enough to recognize that even the most powerful countries still needs friends and shouldn't always expect to get its way.
Weren't there those who didn't just think that Hitler was a harmless little fool-- before his rise to power? Were they arrogant or what!?
