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Why Did We Even Trade for James Posey If We Are Never Going to Play Him?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Manny Ramirez, Dec 21, 2002.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    DoD,

    I was mulling over whether or not to put this in the game thread, but this is the 2nd straight game in which Posey has gotten peanuts minutes.

    Also, this is a thread that asks things in general, specifically Rudy's rotations. But if you feel differently, then please merge into the game thread.
    :)

    I mean, come on, does Rudy not know that Posey was averaging around 14 points a game for one of the worst, maybe the worst, teams in the league?

    He has done some things that have really made me question his decisions, but this lack of playing a pretty good player like James Posey is the one that takes the cake.

    Here is a comparison:

    James Posey - 2 games with the Rockets, total of 5 minutes .

    Kenny Thomas - 2 games with the 76ers, total of 45 minutes (although he did go scoreless tonight).

    I have a hard time believing that Larry Brown's offense is any more complicated than Rudy's (what offense, right? It's just iso based with a couple of token passes to Yao).

    Yet Brown has already let KT play decent minutes. What is Rudy's excuse besides that he is a moron?

    This also begs the question - why in the hell get this guy if you are never gonna freaking play him? Huh?

    I guess it is obvious that Posey does not fit into this team's future plans.:(

    And I hate to dump on TMo, but there is ABSOLUTELY no reason for him to be playing major minutes. I mean the dude cannot play offense to save his life. And I am willing to bet that Posey is just as good or better defender than Morris (which is his only redeeming quality). Does TMo have something on Rudy? Has Posey said something to piss Rudy off? I mean I am searching for answers here.

    Now, onto something else that I have noticed the last couple of games:

    Why in the world do we take out Francis AND Yao at the same time? One time we had them and Mobley out for one game this past week. I mean if you have a lineup of Moochie, Hawkins (Mobley), Mo Taylor, TMo (or Rice) and Cato, do you honestly expect to score?

    Geez, common sense tells you that you have to have a goto guy out there and Mo Taylor and Mobley are not it.

    Oh well, I am obviously frustrated. And what frustrates me is not losing (although it is disappointing) but to see us go out and get a pretty decent player like Posey and then not even play him.

    It would be one thing if the same thing was happening to Kenny Thomas in Philly but it is not. That fact right there magnifies and brings front and center the fact that Rudy has NO CLUE on how to do rotations. Period.
     
  2. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
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    Hasn't there already been a thread exactly like this that was locked tonight?
     
  3. RIET

    RIET Member

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    Rudy T. loves T. Morris for whatever reason.

    T. Morris can't shoot (he makes 1 of 4 shots when he's open)
    T. Morris cant dribble (have you ever seen him dribble and make a move to the hole)
    T. Morris is an adequate defender when playing people with who are equally inept as he
    T. Morris can rebound unless he's guarding Gary Trent who is All World.

    Jack Haley:: Dennis Rodman
    T. Morris:: Steve Francis
     
  4. derrock

    derrock Member

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    Cut TMo some slack...Gary Trent was considered the Shaq of the MAC!!! ;)
     
  5. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Yea, but it asked about tonight's game, not the last two games.:p
     
  6. TECH

    TECH Member

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    I personally believe that when Posey gets a couple practices in with the ROX, he'll be getting plenty of minutes. You gotta know the plays, or at least some of them, unless you'd like to see some iso for HIM. :eek:
     
  7. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    rudy needs to resign asap.
     
  8. Prempeh

    Prempeh Member

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    I don't think it has as much to do with offense as it does defense...

    Even though we the zone we were playing at times wasn't working, that may have been why Posey didn't play. Rudy has always been true to his own guys -- seems like newbies have to show it in practice before Rudy feels comfortable with them out there.

    Also, in the comparison with Brown and the Sixers, I think KT is head and shoulders above the guys at the 4 spot in Philly.

    To be honest, I don't know how see us keeping Posey after this year...I think the deal was made to free up Mo some time more than it was to get Posey.
     
  9. Vengeance

    Vengeance Member

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    Chill guys, Rudy will put Posey in when he's got a few practices under his belt. We can deal without him for a few games until he gets some of the offense down. Right now I imagine Rudy is trying to let Posey watch from the bench and watch the game to get a feel for how the Rockets run things. I imagine he'll start to get some minutes against the Jazz and by the end of next week he'll be doing at least 20 a game.
     
  10. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    TECH,

    I hear what you are saying but I doubt that KT has had any practices with Philly. And Prempeh is probably right, but it bugs me that Rudy has this attitude of "well, you won't even get a sniff of playing time if you are new here."

    Remember heypartner's bet that Yao would start at C for the opening game? I knew that wouldn't happen simply because of this mindset of Rudy's.

    To me this guy's biggest strength is his defense. From what I have read here, our defense was one of the biggest reasons why we lost tonight. And I don't buy that playing a zone defense is that complicated. What is complicated about playing a spot? Unless the Rockets' zone defense is akin to the Temple matchup zone defense, then what is so hard about it?

    We don't even need Posey to score much at first, just do the little things like rebound and play solid defense. Call me crazy but I think he could have helped us tonight better than 2 freaking garbage minutes.

    EDIT - just saw Vengeance's post. But Vengeance, why does Larry Brown not feel the same way? This is the one thing that really annoys me about Rudy.
     
  11. dfbreyes

    dfbreyes Member

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    I agree with Manny Ramirez.

    And since Posey isn't a rookie like Yao Ming who happened to come from another country, he shouldn't feel lost playing with the Rockets. Posey didn't need to adjust to a new culture or language.

    C'mon, wasn't Clyde Drexler playing right away when they traded Otis Thorpe?

    In my opinion, it is really stupid to make a trade and not use the player.

    The only way a new player can get used to playing with a new team is actually playing.

    Rudy T should be sacked.
     
  12. Vengeance

    Vengeance Member

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    IMO it's because Kenny is a different kind of player than Posey. James Posey is not one who creates his own shot so easily, he needs to be part of plays and part of the offense. For Kenny, you just iso him and he'll take it in. He rarely gets any buckets in the flow of an offensive play. He's a bad outside shooter, undersized and not a good passer. KT's best asset is his drive to the basket with the spin-move and footwork around the basket. Just because Posey scored 14 a game on a team with NO ONE to score doesn't mean he's an offensive machine. He's a team player who can have shots created for him in the flow of the offense. Run him off of picks and so on.

    Also, they need Kenny to play NOW more than we need Posey to play NOW. Granted, we lost tonight and his defense would've been useful. BUT, we have done fairly well with Rice and Morris at the SF position so far. If we can win with that combo, there's no reason to rush things with Posey. Now, we didn't win tonight, but it's not because we had Posey out. Frankly, we could've and should've won this game regardless, but we played poor TEAM defense in the first half. Then, when we got the lead, we started taking bad shots out of the flow of the offense. There is NO WAY that Posey would've changed that.

    As far as Rudy's handling of Yao Ming, he didn't play Yao Ming early on and HE WAS RIGHT TO DO IT! Had he played Yao Ming and rode him a lot early on, he would've likely had teams trying to come at him and make him look foolish more and more often. With Yao Ming still very inexperienced at the NBA level, he needed time to just acclimate himself. 10 minutes a game to get some rhythm and *boom*, now he's playing great. Rudy has done a near flawless job with Yao Ming so far.
     
  13. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Rudy's way of bringing along new players is always slow. He worries too much about "player's feeling". Posey shoud've played against G.Robinson in the Hawks game. Big Dog was killing the Rockets with his shooting and Rice couldn't do a thing to defend him. Neither could Rice's 13 pts hold a candle to Robinson's 28. Posey should've been put on Robinson to stop the bleeding. I guess Rudy just don't want to hurt Rice's "fragile" phsyche. Rudy is treating his players not as pros, but a bunch of kindergarten kids. As a result they turn out to be like that. They play defense when they want to, jacks up shots when they want to. The Rockets have the talent but not the mind.
     
  14. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Thank you. This is exactly my complaint about this.

    Vengeance,

    I don't disagree about your points with Posey and KT, but what Panda said is what drives me crazy about this. Oh and I completely agree with you on the handling of Yao, but Yao is a special case in being a rookie and new to this country and its culture.

    Somebody said in the game thread that if we got McGrady, Rudy would only play him for 2 minutes in his first game. I know that was a sarcastic post but sometimes I wonder if that wouldn't happen.:(
     
  15. Vengeance

    Vengeance Member

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    How is it that we should've put Posey in instead of Rice on Robinson. Glenn went off for 22 points in the first quarter, then got held to 6 points, four of them in the second half. FOUR!!! With Rice and Morris defending him!!! The team tightened up its defense, and Rice gave us the offense we needed to get over the top.
     
  16. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    I am not so sure rudy elects to not play Posey b/c he doesn't fully know the offensive/defensive schemes (as if we even have any). I wouldn't be surprised if he is just too much of a wuss to hurt Rice's or TMo's feelings by eating into their playing time. Who is not obvious to that Rice can't play D worth shht and that TMo just flat out sucks?? It's a freakin no-brainer to put Posey in over those 2, but rudy just doesn't have the balls to properly manage this roster.
     
  17. tycoonchip

    tycoonchip Member

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    I really don't beleive posey is in our future plans what so ever. I think he is being used to clear up cap space to sign the boys we already have if not head on for a trade. I am seeing another big trade coming along.
     
  18. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Vengeance, I believe Robinson did not score that much in the 2nd half because he injured his back. That is also the reason he didn't play against Philly tonite.
     
  19. basketball

    basketball Member

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    I think Rice can still be a valuable piece of this offense with his outside shoting and leadership. I think with the lackluster defense that we have shown lately in the first period, I proposed to start Posey and have Rice coming off the bench for instant offense. With the rotation that Rudy use, sometime either Mobley or Francis is the only shooter out there. (Cato, Moochie, Morris or Hawkins, Griffin or Taylor are the other 4 on the floor). As a result Mobley tend to force up shot instead of moving the ball around. At the start of the game you got 3 shooters in Yao, Steve and Cutino already in the game. You need someone to play defense rather than another offensive player. So, I think Rice can play the role of that instant offense coming off the bench to give the team a spark. With Posey providing the defensive spark hopefully we don't fall behind early like we did the past 2 games.
     
  20. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Some of the arguments can be interpreted in both ways. For example, Kenny is good at ISOs and he relys less on the system to score, therefore he gets to play more. That makes sense, however, don't forget Kenny can't go iso on each possesion. He has to be able to function in 76cer's offense to not become a liability, when other teammates execute plays. If Kenny has no problem playing in 76cer's offense, then why should Posey?

    Robinson popping off 22 points in the first quarter confirms exactly my point, I mean someone scored 22 in the first Q and our best forward defender still sat on the bench?That doesn't make sense. Come on, Rudy, take a good chance, don't hang on to Robinson's cooling off, getting his back injured, or Rice *gasp* and Morris playing good D, you have an atheletic forward stud sitting on the bench, who has the chance to do better than any other sf.

    If KT was still on the team and he gets two DNPs in a row, that doesn't help the Rox to win. Can't we at least agree on that? well, since Posey is traded for KT, not playing Posey is the same as not playing Thomas for no apparent reason.

    Rice isn't in the long term picture and TMo sucks, I wanna see Boki and Posey play!
     

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