Who still Thinks we had a good offseason ?

Dude, we couldn't have got Griffin if we picked up Haywood, Tinsley, and Jefferson...wise one...we traded our three picks for him

 

I've got a couple questions about this lineup you say we'd have. How would we have gotten Tinsley, Jefferson, Haywood, as well as Griffin in the draft? Frankly I don't think Tinsley would be having the success he has now on the Rockets. We don't play the same type of offensive game as the Pacers do and that changes what Tinsley would be able to achieve.

Frankly I think Haywood's only shown such improvement because of one man: MJ. The knock on Haywood's always been he's lazy and unmotivated, and Jordan's lit a fire under his butt. Who on the Rockets motivates our rookies, or challenges them to succede like Jordan does?

As for Morris, I think it's a little early to be predicting doom. Another big disappointment? It's not like he's gotten much time in games to prove things. The simple fact is he's a better starter than a bench player in my opinion. He does a little bit of everything on the court, but is hesitant on the offensive end. So he's not the type of instant offense guy you may be looking for off the bench.

I guess you can look at the imaginary and think about would haves and should haves but even in this hindsight isn't 20/20.

 

It's really easy to lose when your 3 best players are injured/hobbled.

 

You have got to be kidding me!! So you mean to tell me that 3 rookies are going to lead us to the playoffs?? Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.......



This was one of the worst offseason's in recent memory for me.

Olajuwon gone to free agency (A helluva lot better option than Cato)

Anderson gone to free agency (Hey I liked the guy...)

Taylor out with a season ending injury.

Moochie "dribble me softly" Norris signed to the most ridiculous contract since Kelvin Cato.

All in all we dont have much of a team outside of our 2 guards in Steve Francis and Cuttino Mobley....

 

Give me a break Francis_Rule this proves what about your point? Did you predict that Mo would be out for the season with an injury? Did you predict Francis would be out for 2 months with an injury? Did you predict that Mobley would come out of the gate with an injury? How can you say Griffin only shoots threes he rebounds well and he blocks shots and he scores well in the post, he's still learning. So what about Tinsley, maybe the reason he is playing well is because Isiah Thomas one of the greatest point guards ever is working him? Rice isn't doing anything to our cap we would be over the cap with or without Rice. Haywood has been hurt up until last week so how would he have helped us? Who cares about Jefferson I'd rather have Griffin. Obviously Jefferson is playing better now he has more experience. Look at the numbers Willis' is putting up compared to Haywood this year Willis is producing more. It's easy to run on this board and post a thread saying "HAHA I told you so!" When our starting PF, franchise player and PG, and starting 2-guard is out with and injury and no I don't think that Tinsley and Jefferson could carry this team with so many injuries. A question though, how did you think the Rockets would be able to get Jefferson who was part of the Griffin deal? And how do you think we would have added Tinsley and Haywood to boot? And how do you think we would have gotten Webber? The Rockets couldn't sign him straight up so I'm assuming we would have had to trade draft picks in a package of a sign-and-trade thus your rookies would be dealt. It's easy to say what the Rockets could do and then dream up a scenerio, it's another thing all together when it's impossible to make those deals. That line-up you projected isn't possible. Another question, if you wanted the Rockets to sign Webber how do you think not signing Moochie to his 3 million per year contract would save tons of money to sign Duncan!? You think Duncan would take 3 million dollars per year!?

 

I personally like our three rookies better than the ones you just mention. They would run circles around the three you just mentioned.

Torres - could easily be the best rookie in the league but because of Cat just not getting the PT. Truly could be ROY.

Griffen - Man this guy is talented. He can already rebound and block shots better than any other rookie in the league. He just needs a polished offense game.

Morris - His size is awesome. He is the biggest SF in the rookie class and on the court he defends/rebounds like Shawn Marion. He needs a shot and more playing time. He also needs to be in a fastbreak type offense which we aren't running now. IMO better than Shandon Anderson.

Haywood would have been nice. Tinsley is also pretty good but remember that Haywood has MJ and Tinsley has Isiah as teachers.

Getting Rice was a huge mistake especially since he can't shoot. He has missed almost all open 3 possible. He does have a good post up game but that goes to waste since the opponents SF are shooting lights out. Moochie was also a big mistake but I think he is tradeable.

Overall I am mad at Rudy for getting Rice+Moochie but the three rookies are awesome.

 

Morris is just as good as Jefferson but Jefferson plays with Jason Kidd, which helps him. Jefferson would be riding the pine here in Houston. I would rather have Morris than Jefferson.

 

Who still thinks we had a good off season?

It's really too early to tell:

** Regarding Rice...we'll know by midseason if he is truly fried Rice. Disappointing so far-I think his legs are gone, but maybe he's coming around.

** Moochie is nothing more than a serviceable backup PG; the more he plays, the more his deficiencies get exposed.

** EG is being sheltered by Rudy, which I do not understand. I think he's the real deal and will begin to blossom by the end of the year. Please let the guy play at the 4 or 5, not as the league's tallest SG!!

** TMo looks like he's got stage fright, but I'm not ready to write him off. He may be a sleeper.

** Dream wasn't coming back anyway, so fuggidaboutit.

** Willis a good 11th hour pickup given our luck with Jackson. At least he leaves it on the floor every nite.

** Anderson is bringing less to the Knicks than he didn't bring to us!! No loss there.

** We could probably use the Bull; nobody is lighting it up like he could.

All bets are off this until the guards are back and the unit stays healthy for a while. Let's judge the rooks in a couple of years.

 

Because Rudy isnt a good people's coach, (he's a good player's coach, but theres a difference) I don't think it would be accurate to say that we would have a better team with three up and coming rookies with less potential than Griffin.

Why? It's harder to maintain minutes and develop your rookies at the same time and it's harder to teach them the fundamentals to play the game. These rookies are raw, and the Rockets only have 2 assistant coaches. It's not like Les is gonna pull a Cuban and hire "developmental" coaches for each rookie. In Jersey, they're in rebuilding mode and the trade for Kidd validated the trade more than anything else. Who's gonna pass the rooks the ball? Cat? Mo Taylor? The only way they're gonna pan out is if they get experience. Being on the court and imitating Shandon Anderson (the job Glen Rice already has) isn't experience...

Eddie Griffin was never intended to be thrown head first into the NBA. With injuries and whatnot that's not an option anymore, its the only choice. But Rudy has his own style of coaching. After all he's more known as a coach more comfortable with veterans and poised rookies. Rashard Lewis flashbacks anyone?

 

We had a great offseason. It's the regular season that sucks.

During the offseason, I hadn't seen this much optimism in a long time, maybe ever. We thought we had acquired a 19 year old phenom in Griffin and an immensely talented player in Terence Morris. We thought Francis and Mobley would be even better. We thought Taylor would improve. We saw KT, who was already quicker than most power forwards last year, come in 20 lbs lighter. We saw Collier and Langhi with noticeably more muscle on them. We thought we had legit center options in Marc Jackson, then Kevin Willis. And we thought the core of Francis, Mobley, Taylor, and Moochie had developed great chemistry.

Instead, Taylor's out. Francis is out. Mobley is hobbled. Rice doesn't look healthy. Morris and Griffin get too little PT. Moochie, Tierre and Oscar get too much PT. There's no chemistry at all. We still have Walt and Cato. We lost to the BULLS!

Definitely, the regular season has not lived up to expectations.

 

Francis_Rules, we did have a good offseason. The only reason we are stinking it up now is cause Francis is injured, Cat's playing hurt, and Mo's out for the season. If we were healthy we'd be atleast 11-8 right now.

 

The only "possibly" good thing that came out of this offseason is the pickup of Griffin and it will be another year or two before we know if he was a good aquisition. Torres could also be looked at as a good pickup, but where is he going to get PT? Mobley will have to come off the bench or play more time at the 3 which is not a good idea.

Face it, the offseason sucked. Hakeem, the one player that was the Rockets icon for years and should have retired a Rocket, was allowed to walk, leaving us with Kelvin Cato, the most overpaid player in the league, as our starting center. Even though we picked up Willis to help plug the hole, it's still not enough up front.

Then there is the issue of what Rockets management dished out to Moochie. Can you say Cato The Sequel? I like Mooch, but there is no way in hell he deserved the money he is getting and if you guys think we'll be able to trade him, guess again. No GM in their right mind will take on a salary that large for a second string PG of Moochie's caliber. Tim Hardaway, Damon Jones, <insert token backup PG here> are just as good and are making a lot less.

Next up is trading for Rice. Sure we signed SA to a stupid contract and traded him to NY, but we got an even more outrageous contract in Rice.

Maybe once Mo comes back it will be a whole different story, but he's going to need time to get back in shape, then time to get aquainted with the team(on the court). Chemistry isn't built overnight.

The thing is, if you look at the Rockets as a whole last year and as a whole this year, we took a big step back.

The only thing holding this team together is Francis and Mobley. If we have to rely on both of them to be in the game together for us to win, we're in deep you know what.

 

You are one of those guys who likes to kick people, even when they are down on the ground, aren't you? Good grief! Yes, the Rockets are playing terrible. I am embarrassed by the loss to Chicago, and I didn't think they could even go this low, I admit. And I really don't like the idea that this team can only win with Francis in there. But this is rebuilding. And we are starting with a whole team of different players than we had a year ago, with very little practice time this summer together. Francis was doing an amazing job of getting everyone involved, and Norris is not doing that. More guys are getting experience, and that is good for later in the year, even if it isn't good right now. Why do you have to pile on?

But about the offseason, we played the cards dealt us ...

<b> Taylor's signing and injury:</b> OK, the signing was great, the injury is terrible. He was the third best guy on the team. This was a major loss for THIS year. What is your proof that this injury ends careers? You don't know that. I haven't heard that from other experts. Prove your case on this rather than throw out paranoia. If you are correct, then, yes, we are screwed. If not, then actually, it has long-term benefits. This has allowed Kenny to get playing time, and demonstrate whether he belongs, or allow us to showcase him, so we can trade him for a center piece. He is already worth a lot more than this summer. It also allowed us to get Willis, who is and will continue to be a valuable backup, who we needed. He's not the answer at center, but a valuable backup.

<b>drafting Griffin, instead of Tinsley, Haywood, and Jefferson:</b> Well, I think its interesting that even Cleveland didn't draft those guys. You're speaking from hindsight. I never heard anyone saying we should pick Tinsley. I would do pretty good at the track, if I always could bet on the winners, since I knew the future. But I also think you are DEAD WRONG about Griffin. He's the real deal. And he's still growing. He's an incredible shotblocker, rebounder, and silky smooth player that has great court sense. He will be a star, more than any of those three guys. And where we need him most. I hope he's our answer at the 5, but he can also play the 3 or 4. The guy was a freshman in college. Give him a chance to adjust to the pros. He hasn't learned a lot of plays yet. So, he's shooting threes on the plays he has learned. That will change as the year progresses. You watch. This was the absolute steal of the draft. We'll be saying this for years. It was as big or bigger a coup than the Francis signing. Both teams won on this deal, but this bigger winner is always who ended up with the better player, not more players.

<b>Getting Webber, instead of signing our players:</b> This is extremely presumptious. We were never going to sign Webber. Mute argument. He was using everyone as leverage to get a big contract out of whoever would win. Sacramento would have been able to offer MORE to Webber, than us, so we'd have lost out. But, we lost interest, as soon as we drafted Griffin. That will turn out to be a better decision, in the long run. Even in the short run, he's been injured so far. Right now, you'd be telling everyone what a stupid signing that was, while we were losing. Also, if we had waited on Webber, we would have risked signing our own players. This would have been worse if we'd have lost everyone.

<b>S&T Anderson for Rice:</b> As far as I'm concerned, the jury is still out on this one, whether we should have let Shandon walk, and then keep the cap space. Rice has been injured for over a year, and is still not in full capacity. It could take another month or so to regain his stuff, and if he hasn't pulled out of his slump, then I'll regret this trade. But would you rather have Shandon right now, at the price tag he wanted? We got rid of someone who didn't fit this team for someone who did. Now what if Rice comes back to his old self? We'll have a very valuable piece added to the puzzle. But he's a new player to this team, and it takes longer than a month for even someone in good health to get smooth. Remember Clyde? But at the end of the year, he was awesome.

<b>Trading and drafting TMo:</b> For one thing, get your facts straight. We didn't lose next year's draft pick for him. We traded the Mirsad #1 pick for him from Detroit, which we weren't going to get for another few years. We recouped the draft mistake of a few years ago, when we should have picked Lewis, in hindsight. But, I REALLY don't agree with you on this one. Morris is the perfect addition to this team. He won't need to be the star. He has great chemistry with Francis. He's our 3 of the future. He has silky smooth court sense, which hasn't come out yet, due to rookie intimidation. I believe this will be viewed as great an acquisition as Mobely in the future. OK, so he's a rookie and not playing well yet. But he's perfect for this particular team, maybe not as a sub, especially this year, but as an eventual starter in our rebuilding.

<b> Signing Torres:</b> What a coup! He's every bit as good as Jefferson, and already playing better. We didn't lose a draft pick for him. Tremendous addition. He makes this summer a success all by itself. I'm not saying the team is a success already, as a result of this summers moves, but in the rebuilding objective, it was very successful.

<b>trading Dream:</b> I think we handled it about as well as we could have, since Dream should have retired. It would have been nice if we could have done the trade for Christie/Willis and #5/10 picks a couple years ago, but Dream made it clear that he would have made it a PR nightmare if we'd tried. So, even though some might wish we could have done that, it wasn't possible. So, we at least did get a couple draft picks for him. And we've

<b>bad move:</b> I think signing Moochie was a mistake. Now perhaps it was essential in terms of not losing Francis next year, and Moochie is his buddy. So we don't know what Rudy and CD know. And this signing may in reality be money going toward signing Steve, not really Moochie. But in terms of talent, he's not worth what he's getting paid, and I wish we could have traded him for someone else. Maybe he'll learn not to dribble so much.

<b> woulda, coulda, shouldas:</b> I wish we had picked up Lewis instead of Drew, somehow traded for McGrady, when it might have still been possible, and so many on this board were clamoring for it ... I wish we could have traded Cato for any deal that was ever possible, especially the one for Curry, because we thougth Cato might still turn out ... I wish we hadn't traded for Langhi, losing our pick this year, when we could have picked up Loren Woods with the pick ... I wish we'd have traded Pippen for something before he opened his big fat mouth and held out for Oneal somehow, or sent him to Toronto for Clark, McGrady and Christie ... imagine having Curry/Clark/McGrady/Lewis/Woods instead of Drew, Cato, Williams, Langhi...

<b>... oh well. But if I knew how everything would always turn out when I made a deal, I'd have bought Microsoft/Cisco/Dell stock at day one, and not sold it when I made a profit... and I'd own the Rockets today and make all these RIGHT decisions! </b>

In lieu of the Rockets not knowing the future, I think they've done amazing, and have rebuilt faster than anyone else has. Out of the three championship teams who had to rebuild in the 90's, the Rockets, Bulls, and Pistons, we are in the best shape. Getting Francis for Dickerson, Othella and scrubs - absolutely amazing. Mobely in the second round. Taylor for almost nothing initially. Morris in the second round. Trading up to get Griffin, who noone thought was possible. Picking up Torres from nowhere. Thomas was the best available at the spot we picked.

Absolutely amazing. But what is obvious from how things are going so far, is that we aren't finished rebuilding, as many of us had hoped. We still need that center piece, and time to gel as a team.

 

I still think we had a good offseason...

After all we did start 5-1 without our third best player.(Offensively and reboundingly(?) speaking)

It's the things since the offseason that haven't been good.

 

I just want to say that I mostly agree with Sherlock. But i will tell you one thing: I REALLY MISS THE BULL. We should have never let Matt Bullard out of Houston. Sure, he may not have been the most athletic player in the league, but he was the Bull and I loved him. The guy could come off the bench after sitting a really long time and knock down threes. Practically speaking, he wouldn't have been the perfect acquisition. but that doesn't mean I sure don't wish he were still here...

Michael

 

Rockets need players that can bail out Rudy T's azz. Rudy can not coach, and the rookies in this years draft could not cover up his freelance coaching style.

I don't blame the injuries, nor our young guys, I blame Rudy T.

Players should not have to jack up 30 three point shots in one game.

Its teeth pulling pain watching the Rockets this year

 

Who are you talking to?

 

RocketsPimp:

I think Sherlock was talking to Francis Rules.

This first post of Francis Rules in this thread (the initial one) just reinforces why I don't come to this forum much anymore....