Make no mistake, the Lakers game was incredible. More that that, it was important. The only game in Yao's tenure with the organization which is more imprtant to our future is the next one. While it is arguable that this is the best we have seen of Yao, it is also arguable that there have been previous examples of the young Rockets' center scaling to incredible heights, seeming to make manifest all the potential we have long seen in is huge, skilled frame, and in each case the 7'6" future of the Rockets has come back to eart pretty quickly thereafter. Whether this is because of his own vertigo, or because teammates haven't liked him blocking out the sun is a matter of debate, but what should no longer be debated is whether or not Yao ' ready to take the reigns of this team. He is. Whether or not he does is the issue. The fact that Yao went mano a mano with the games most dominant player, and came out at least equal is telling. And for NBA fans, the fact that he did it in a traditional center manner, as opposed to taking Shaq and out beating him off the dribble like Duncan and a select few have don is even more important. He played Shaq's game, cooked in Shaq's kitchen, and Shaq was the one who left due to heat exhaustion. That is all true, all imprtant, and almost unprecedented. But to me, there were other aspects to Wednesday night's game which were as important to the long term development of Yao Ming. For one thing, many have made note of the fact that Yao started off shooting poorly. That was no bggie, as even Larry Bird had poor shooting nights. But Yao also started off tired. Early in the game, and especially early in the 3rd Yao looked about done in. Think back to when you were still in doubt about the game's outcome, and you might recall cringing as you saw Yao shuffle slowly downcourt, or even stop running after a turnover. Endurance, or lack thereof has been Yao's Achilles' heel almost since day one, and it was the one thing which might have proven to be a perpetual hamstring to his development. Against the Lakers, that seemed to be coming true. And then a funny thing happened...Yao was tired, Yao was sagging, and where this would normally have been all the excuse his teammates needed to look eslewhere for their offense, instead they kept going to him. And it worked. I can't emphasize enough how much this means. Either JVG has learned how and when to rest Yao in order to get the most out of him, or he is possessed of second and third winds we have never seen, at least in part because we never gave it a chance. And as others have discussed there were other things, important things we didn't see against the Lakers. He didn't back down from a physical confrontation. He didn't get out-toughed. Sure he never rocked the rim and glared around him like a Lion King the way Shaq seems to do whenever his supremacy has been doubted, but in his own way, he proved as hard, as tough, as resilient. Like water, some might say, he didn't need to be obviously hard in order to be unbreakable. What happens next is the key. Will Yao, by virtue of what we have all seen he can do against the best, now be comfortably installed as the go-to guy in the offense, even when he experiences early struggles? Because you're not a go-to guy when they only go to you when you're hot. If Yao is not Da Man, it will be evident the next time he struggles. If the Rockets find that reason enough to avoid him, to not assert the entry pass, to look for their own shots, than ultimately Wednesay night meant little more than previous big games against the Maverikcs, Spurs, etc. If, however, the other Rockets no longer pay more lip service than floor service to 'keeping the big fella involved', if we truly become an inside-out game, then Yao/Shaq IV will long be remembered as the turning point for the franchise. But it will have been the next game which was most important.
The next game is the allstar game,and yeah, that one could be important, too. Do it Yao, make a name for yourself. Adelman has no reason to punk you.
Lol! Well, obviously the game I had in mind was the next Rockets game, but I agree that Yao could go a long way to cementing his rep and confidence with a big ASG. Doubt it will happen, though.
When teams dont double him, he kicks ass. SA didnt double him, he had 25. Against B. Wallace, he had 20,20. Even against J Oneal, he does decent. I think there are a couple of reasons he struggles against double teams. First it takes our guards a little time to get into the play. Then Yao takes a few seconds to first get positions in the post. After that he takes a couple of seconds to see if the double is coming or not. If it does come, he passes out. So far so good right? Not quite. See, the shotclock is going down, so there is enough time to move it around and get a decent shot, but not enough to give the ball back to Yao sometimes. Maybe thats why teams pressure us so much in the backcourt, it takes away from Yao time in the post. Shaq, Duncan repost immediately. Yao does not. If Yao runs the floor faster, and our guards give it to him soon, the result is always good. He has time enough to repost. The Lakers game actually scares me a little. If Shaq struggled to guard Yao one on one, who else has a chance? That means double teams for Yao every time. He better get used to it quick. But there are things he can do to avoid some double teams, of course. He can shoot it quick. Those 20 footers that he shot, he usually never shoots them. He shot 4 of those against LA. He missed, but he can make them. Hakeem used to shoot 18 footers all the time, almost same spot. Also, he can fade away from the double. Another Hakeem tactic. The dreamshake. Yao can fade away when he sees the double coming. Its still a high % shot.
Let's not get too high on Yao for the rest of the season. He's a guy that can go for 30 one night and then 10 the next. Part of this is because of HeyDude 's comments about double teams. We have to think of Yao has a player just out of high school --> he's still learning in the NBA and just can't bring it every night (even LeBron has too many off-nights to be labeled a star). But I think the Yao-Shaq meeting does show that Yao indeed is real. Just wait till next year to expect it consistantly.
I agree with Macbeth the next game is very important.. How Yao plays during the rookie/soph game will show everyone what kind of player he is and determine his fate. hehehe j.k We've already known Yao can play well one on one against anyone in the league.. So can SF3, Cat and MoT but its how Yao deals with double teams that will determine his value as a franchise player but surrounding him with players that can make double teams pay is also important. We have that now but we dont seem to make teams pay enough.. From the San Antonio back to series we had.. Duncan played poorly both games but his team carried the load since they were open. When Yao gets the double we need to space correctly and Yao needs to hit them right on with passes too. I dont mean whoever Yao passes to has to shoot but if you dont have a shot keep moving the ball. This all goes back to passing and ball movement which is our weakness but something that can be developed and learned. If Yao is doubled that should make the game easier for everyone else but for some reason we cant make them pay. Or yao needs to make his moves before the double teams come like when he flashes in the paint he can hit a quick hook shot or fadeaway. IMO this team needs to set up into the offense alot quicker we dont seem to have enough time to run our plays properly and get our guys open. I would love more passing inside and out but alot of times the shotclocks doesnt allow that or we just dont make the right passes. As Yao learns how to handle double teams better and sometimes just beat them or fight through them we will be a much stringer team.. J
Yao's consistensy is going to depend on Van Gundy. He has to find a way to get Yao looks agains the zone. It has become very clear that the way to defend Yao is play zone, which by the way is exactly what zones are meant to do. And the problem against the zone isn't the guards. Remember how Seatle used to neutralize Hakeem when they played zone? And that team had a great group of entry passers. When the opposition plays zone, JVG is going to have to quit being stubborn and move Yao around in the offense.
Early offense would be good, I agree, but so would asserting the post entry pass, and forcing the double, to initiate the inside-out offense. That has been our biggest weakness as a supposed inside-out tema, our failure to recognize theat the value of the inside-out offense is directly correlated to how often you use it, and that the benefits of the inside-out offense are negated or at least lessened when you go away from it before you even get the ball in the post. FORCE the double. If they're doubling already...and I mean a hard double, not a man floating off his man towards Yao in anticipation, then we've got an easy 2 or 3 somewhere. As you said, recognition is key. But all of this is useless if, as we have seen so often this year, either Yao shies away or the team finds ways to overlook him, double or no. Incidentally, there are still times when Yao should go ritght through the double, We saw the Lakers try to get high/low doubles going against Yao a few times, and aggressive moves can counter this. Not always the best move, but it's something the great ones do a few times a game.
I think players need to recongnize a couple of things about the inside outside offense. First, if u r to follow a system, then u play your part and that's it. Cat said it a week ago about Francis missing the team flight vs. Phoenix: "we didnt need him, we have a set offense. We could've won w/o him, or me, or Mo....." It is right to an extent. It would've been truer for the Rockets of Olajuwon more though. Those players, (Kenny, Horry, Elie, Sam) knew their roles in the system. Olajuwon gets double teamed, u move around, get open, and either hit the 3 ball, swing it, or penetrate. Sam violaed it a little, but he had to....he played w/ the second unit. What good is an inside-outside offense w/o Olajuwon in the game? Or when he isnt' effective? So he did his thing to score. But on any night, u replace Kenny, or Elie w/ another player, we could've won. These players werent extremely skilled athletes. Our offense was set cause Olajuwon demanded double teams, and the players played the system, and it worked. That brings us to the current Rockets. See, its still a work in progress. Neither is Yao dominant enought for the inside-outside to be consistantly effective, neither do the guard truely know their roles on the offense. See, when Yao kicks it out, the guards have the same options Kenny, Horry and Sam had. They can put up the 3, swing it, or penetrate. The difference is, our guards play more like Cassell. They violate the scheme. This is fine to do it when u r supposed to. For example, Cat pump faked and penetrated when he saw weakness in LA's defense. Steve was feeling it so he went a little one on one instead of keeping it moving in the 4th quarter. Fine. But this always cant work. On the other hand, sometimes they move the ball fine, but Yao just cant get it going, whether its bad passing out of double teams, or bad job at getting positioning, or just lack of aggressiveness. When this happens, the guards have to play more like Sam, and do their thing. It is needed, and they are talented, and they have to use their skills. They are extraordinary athletes. If they always play like Kenny, or Horry, and wait for Yao do do his thing right now, they would never play to their potential, and we would be lottery material. So balance it. For our inside-outside version to work to perfection, the guards need to know when to break from the inside-outside plan, and when to just swing the ball.
High points for intelligent discussion to McBeth and HeyDude, excellent points... I like what mcbeth is saying about Yao starting slow. With the great ones, MJ, Dream etc., everyone knew they would find a way to get their 20+ points even if they started 1 for 6, for example. That's what places them apart from the Slava Medvedenkos of the world, or even from the Kobe Bryants and Steve Francises. It was definetely a telling sight that JVG kept pumping the ball in the post after Yao's slow start and that he delivered. If he can keep this going as McBeth says, that would be the begining of greatness. Dude's point is very well taken as well. The reason JVG kept going to Yao was that Jackson played him mano-a-mano. Dude is right that a system with a dominant center that gets double teamed requires high-percantage spot-up shooter that know their role. One "violator" can be tolerated (Cassel, Kobe) but more than one is too much. There is no coincidence that Lakers won their first title only after NVE was shipped out. There is one thing very different from Dream's day's though: the zone rules. Rudy could space the floor so that the double team coming to Hakeem would require so much scrambling on the part of the defence that even Mario could take all the time he needed for his ugly set-shot. Remember when George Carl's Sonics teams cheated with the illegal defence how much trouble we had. Well, that illegal defence is perfectly legal now. I don't think a system based on one dominant post player (Yao) and a bunch of high-percantega 3FG shooters can dominate. We must find ways to utilize the talents of our backourt in a more systematic fashion.
First of all, this weekend's games don't mean a damn thing, as they will be all about the fastbreak alleyoops, and have nothing to do with the way in which the ROX will utilize Yao going forward. MB's point is right on regarding the next REAL game against the Wizards. As VG says, this team must decide on a game plan and "live or die by it," as all the great teams do. In actuality, the coach has already decided what it should be...it's now up to the players, namely Francis, Mobes and JJ to execute it, which may mean sublimating their own games for the benefit of the team. Personally, I don't have much faith in Francis and Mobes' willingness to do this, despite what we saw on Wednesday; they've already shown me willingness in brief spurts... it's their consistency that they struggle with.
beyao: This is such a ridiculous statement that is really getting old and I'm disappointed that it was even introduced in this thread. I have no idea which games you are watching, because they sure aren't the sames I am. HeyDude nailed it. When team's have gone against Yao one-on-one, for the most part the Rockets and Yao have made them pay for it. Our offensive efficiency problems have stemmed in the games where they've, fronted Yao, doubled Yao or used the zone to neutralize him as an option. The Rockets have not figured out how to consistently beat these defenses along with settling in with a perimeter game that has been inconsistent as well.
I agreed with all your assessment, Macbeth. I'm quite surprise that Yao's teammates keep going to him even though they would ignore him when Yao got a cold start in previous games. I think it's only natural that Yao is showing he's improving game by game. The only reason you guys are surprise is because Yao never really have a chance to show what he can do since many times he does not get a single post pass from the guards out of 7 or 8 possessions. (Just look back at the big win against Timberwolf on ABC, in the first quarter, most points Yao got is from offensive rebound and put back, that's why Doc River commented "you don't see Yao getting the ball from the teammates most of the time, and he still got 16 points and that's what impresses me." I don't think it would be bold predication that Yao would get over 40 points in 3 or 4 games if we got someone willing and capable of passing the ball (ie. Jason Kidd, Nash, Cassell). Yao can only be da man if he gets to touch the ball enough times to make an impact. I think things are finally going to turn around now, JVG's talk of consistency will finally come. IF you think about it, that means JVG's control over this team is starting to kick in, before it's a power struggle between JVG & Francis, maybe Francis gets the message and finally willing to play fundamental basketball. Just like when Phil Jackson had a talk with both SHAQ & KOBE right after he got the job to coach the lakers, he told Kobe, "Shaq is the man, if you don't want to be part of it, you can leave". If we played like good team game consistently, there's no team that can match us.
They 'neutralized' him in '96 when no one could hit a perimeter shot, and Hakeem lost the jump hook due to injury. They couldn't stop him at all in the '93 playoffs.
I guess you haven't been watching this season then. One game doesn't mean a thing if they revert back to their old ways whenever there is an obstacle standing in the way of getting Yao the ball. That is my point. Even when Yao is doubled by a swarming defense, I don't see Cat or Francis zipping the ball in when he does flash and is open...this requires commitment because you need to demonstrate patience in order to execute this game plan properly. The point is that the Laker game was great, but our guards still haven't proven to me that they are fully commited. I hope they prove me wrong during the second half of this season, I really do, but I'm not very optimistic of that happening.
I have not even referred to a SINGLE game let alone the last game against the Lakers. I'm tired of hearing people talk about how "the guards" are not dishing the ball to Yao. Let me repeat. The primary reasons for our inconsistency in offensive efficiency IS NOT THE GUARDS BEING UNWILLING TO PASS THE BALL TO YAO. It is the Rockets inability to deal with (1) teams fronting Yao, (2) double teaming Yao, (3) finding a consistent other option when Yao is neutralized. When Yao has been single-covered the majority of the time we've gone to Yao and made the other teams pay.
No, I'm a rational Rockets Fan. Infact that is the crux of the problem. Instead of really analyzing games to draw conclusions, some of you have already drawn conclusions and analyze games for evidence that supports that conclusion. That's irrational.
