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White cop shoots 74 year old black vet during welfare check

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Space Ghost, Feb 9, 2015.

  1. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    If the homeowner had managed to fire a shot, I might agree with you. But, it doesn't sound like he did.
     
  2. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I'd like to know the timing of the whole thing, but I don't think cops should have to wait till they get shot to fire on an armed person. A video of the whole thing would give a lot of important info. Either way, it was a bad situation.
     
  3. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    It appears that family member empowered the police (implicitly through calling) to kick the door down.

    Maybe the old man just wanted to be left alone if family had indeed stopped by and no one answered.

    ...Or perhaps they didn't try at all and figured picking up a phone was easier than getting off their couch.

    I can't really pin blame on this senseless tragedy.
     
  4. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    Very good points but why didn't the family go and check on him themselves or go with the cops to check.
     
  5. Teen Wolf

    Teen Wolf Member

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    I actually agree with you and I didn't realize this happened at near midnight and through his back door. That changes things a bit.

    But lets be real here. The police don't walk away from a man with a weapon. They move to neutralize the perceived threat. That's their standard operating procedure.
     
  6. Nook

    Nook Member

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    They announced themselves.

    They go through the back door because it is easier to get in.

    Tough situation.

    They do welfare checks at all times of day because they have a very busy schedule.

    Was the officer in uniform? Were there several officers in uniform? Did the old man contact the police to see who it was?

    You are making huge assumptions, we don't know how the situation escalated. It may very well have been that the old man was about to shoot or threatened to shoot.

    This is part of why I support body cameras. A lot of this stuff will be known.

    Yes, I agree. Cops should start using stun guns. I mean good thing that the person in the house didn't have a gun..... oh wait....
     
  7. Nook

    Nook Member

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    It is completely unrealistic to ask a cop to NEVER fire until fired upon.
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I'm thinking a tazer would probably fry the 74 year old man. No go on that front...
     
  9. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    Agreed, they had no way of knowing the man's intent. For all they knew, he could have been crazy and dangerous. Just a really bad situation it seems.

    Yeah, and not only that, they didn't know the situation they were going into. For all they knew, they'd need the guns being out.
     
  10. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    We might be getting to the source of the problem here then.

    Now I recognize I'm a bit far afield from others in general on how much risk cops should be taking on themselves in these situations. Forgetting about my position in general, in this particular situation when they are confronting a law-abiding citizen defending his castle in his own home at night, the SOP should not be eliminate all risks before you yourself can get hurt. If the police want to say that's what the book says -- shoot homeowners before they shoot you -- we need a new book. In this case, they absolutely should have walked away from a man with a weapon. And, if he's lawfully carrying, why shouldn't they?
     
  11. LosPollosHermanos

    LosPollosHermanos Houston only fan
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    nothing to see here. Cops didn't have a choice.
     
  12. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    In that darkness, they might not know whether or when the old man would shoot while walking away.

    Adrenaline in that kind of face off is bad business for everyone.

    Still not sure why it had to be done at 11:30 PM, but I'd bet the family would b**** about them being too late if they stopped by a day later and found the old man in critical condition.
     
  13. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    He was older and independent.
    They did not have the key to his home
    plus he was inside so chances he set the deadbolt/inside locks

    Rocket River
     
  14. Remii

    Remii Member

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    The only perceived threat was the cop who was an intruder coming through the back door at a late hour. The officer had no reason to stand his ground considering the man was in his own home alone... It's not like the old man was robbing a bank.


    I'm just saying what the family should have done... But the police provide that service and they should be able to execute that service without actually executing someone. But this guy will still have people who will make excuses for him like the kid who let his dog eat his homework.

    Was there a body cam... If not, for all we know the officer probably shot 1st and asked nothing.
     
  15. Teen Wolf

    Teen Wolf Member

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    Agreed.

    Cops perceive every interaction with citizenry as a potential threat. We live in a society in which your rights are temporarily suspended when you cross paths with a police officer. Do what they say or you might be lawfully gunned down. I don't agree with it but its the reality.
     
  16. Felixthecat

    Felixthecat Member

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    The police should never be doing welfare checks at 11:30pm. Especially on a 74 year old man, do it in the middle of the day when things are more visible and he is more likely to be awake.

    It seems like some cops lack a little common sense and people are dying because of it.
     
  17. Nook

    Nook Member

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    So a police officer is asked to enter the home and he does. He finds the man in his room with a gun pointed at the officer. The officer asks the man to put the gun down and he doesn't. You expect the officer to in a split second take off and leave the area and risk being shot and killed?

    That is unrealistic. We also do not know all of the important details. How did the situation escalate.





    Right.... the officer probably shot first and asked nothing. I am sure the officer gets off shooting senior citizens in their home. Indeed, I am sure he regularly goes around greasing people.
     
  18. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    So based on the OP story, the family asked the police to go the house to check on him, they couldn't get in, went through the back (did they actually kick the door in?) and he pulled a gun on them (did the officer have his gun drawn immediately as well?).

    I don't blame the victim, he didn't know any better, but it doesn't seem like the police did anything wrong. They don't know the victim, they don't know that "he wouldn't hurt a fly," and quite frankly they shouldn't ever assume that to be true. If you point a gun at an officer, prepare to be shot, whether in your home or not.

    The family always wants "justice," but there isn't always someone to take the full blame.

    We don't know enough details about what truly happened to make a judgement against this officer. But from the few details available by the OP, I see a tragic misunderstanding.
     
  19. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    Also, good to see that Remii is still a racist moron
     
  20. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    You're right we don't know the details. Maybe the circumstances are all much more unfortunate than they look. Hopefully, they can sort all that out in the court system.

    But, it doesn't look all that unreasonable to me that an officer could peacefully extricate himself from an armed confrontation. He busts into a home and finds a man pointing a gun at him but not firing. He identifies himself as a police officer come to check on his welfare and instructs the man to lower his weapon. The man calls bull**** and refuses to lower his weapon. The officer says okay he'll leave, but he'll leave his business card behind so that the man can call the station later and confirm his identity. Then he slowly backs out the door. Might he get shot? Maybe, but I think most people -- even senile old coots high on pain meds -- will be reluctant to shoot someone who might be a police officer. I'm much more comfortable with the officer taking that small risk (and he might be wearing a bulletproof vest too) than the greater risk the citizen takes when he decides to open fire. If the officer isn't comfortable with it, he shouldn't be comfortable breaking into innocent people's houses at night.
     

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