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Which ONE player should the Rockets be targeting this offseason?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by dharocks, May 10, 2005.

  1. Panda

    Panda Member

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    Still, who's that mysterious guy you are talking about?

    So you mean we don't need a third option? So what do we do when T-Mac shoots cold(he does have those 5-18 nights), and Yao gets into foul trouble or simply not playing well? What do we do when the role players can't hit an open shot to open up things for T-Mac and Yao? You know why the Mavs and Suns are so good? They have many scorers that take turns to abuse you, and we should abuse them back with added scoring punch.
     
  2. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Contributing Member

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    Still, who's that mysterious guy you are talking about?

    Samuel Dalembert- per 48 minutes- 16.4 points, 15.4 rebounds, and 3.4 blocks.

    Reggin Evans- per 48 minutes- 10 points, 18 rebounds, and .5 block

    Heck I'll even throw in Swift's stats:

    Swift - per 48 minutes - about 20 points, 9 rebounds, 3.0 blocks

    Why am I doing per 48 minutes stats? Because these guys are putting up (sans Swift) about 8 points and 7 rebounds playing only about 22 minutes a game. Give them a good amount of PT..say 30-35 minutes...and I am pretty sure they can average 12/10 on a given night.

    Would any of these guys break the bank? Swift for sure, and Dalembert maybe, ...Evans...50/50. But my point is this: I rather do a S&T for them than a S&T for SAR. We need some young blood that has shown he can develop even more playing at the 4.



    So you mean we don't need a third option? So what do we do when T-Mac shoots cold(he does have those 5-18 nights), and Yao gets into foul trouble or simply not playing well? What do we do when the role players can't hit an open shot to open up things for T-Mac and Yao? You know why the Mavs and Suns are so good? They have many scorers that take turns to abuse you, and we should abuse them back with added scoring punch.


    Did I say we didn't? No. I said having an OFFICIAL 3rd option is problematic. Declaring a guy as a 3rd option only gets to his head when our top two players are on the bench. This is all to familiar with Mobley last year. We need players that know they can score but know that they have to play within the system and feed their teammates as well. The Mavs and Suns are so good is becase they have many scorers, you're right. But they aren't exactly working on the same salary cap philosophy that we work on. And unless Phoenix wins it all this year, it'll just be proven again that you can't just outscore your opponent to win a championship.
     
  3. waelhakmeh

    waelhakmeh Member

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    no way we want cuttino back, not after a year of intelligent playmaking...

    i would be definitely interested in SAR. work it cd!!! ;)
     
  4. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    Is OK but doesn't really help our two main problem areas, another (besides JH) legit 4 or an extra wing defender with size and quickness (besides Tmac).

    I suspect this is more fluid. Get a swingman with decent size and a shot who formely played the 3 doesn't mean you can't set him up like a 2 in our line up and keep Tmac as the official 3.

    You left out scoring efficiency. SAR shot better on a worse team, and that includes a lot of 3 pointers and a good % there. Much superior PPS--top 20 in the league and better than every Rocket save Yao. The fact JH was on a better team (get easier shots) and SAR on a worse (take tougher shots) should further accentuate the differences.

    I don't think skill set is the main problem, not having a legit NBA quality 4 was the main problem (in the playoffs). When Howard and the Rockets were healthy they were damn good on both sides of the ball, having a guy just a little better than JH and now with JH being much superior to the previous bench looks good to me all the way around.

    See point above and I'll get to the down side of the available bruisers/workhorses later.

    Because Dalembert is young, is primarily a center, and hasn't become a head case like Kwame or have his manhood challendged like Swift he won't be available for the MLE. We have a better chance for Swift b/c he is less of a center and b/c of his toughness/focus/committment questions. Might throw Kwame in there too as more likely than Dalembert to be had for an MLE at this point.

    I am with Panda here: I see the 4 top somewhat REALISTIC options for the four are: SAR, Swift, DM and Evans. (Not realistic due to combinations of them being restricted, their current team needs, and/or their market include the PFs Chandler, Dalembert (C/PF), Radmonovic and Haslem as well as....Simmons, Johnson, Curry, Redd, Allen, Walker, Hughes, Z--forget them too). So who might be the next Rocket PF?

    SAR: I agree his defense is not ideal. But he does rebound OK, and is a younger, more athletic/versitle, rangier, and just a better version of JH. I return to my previous point, I think we were pretty good when JH and our whole team was together. SAR with JH backing up would make us solid at the 4 spot.

    Swift: The only reason an MLE might land him is because he has fallen way below guys like Chandler, Curry and Dalemert due to questions about his effort, toughness and committment. If he was so great (even defensively) you would think Memphis would play him more--particularly when they were getting ripped by Amare. Still, for a 6 year/37 mil deal I would take him, sure. Not sure whether Swift or JH would start but gives us options and a better bench. Swift's production is not bad and he is young and can give the Rockets a different look. Overall, I think SAR is much more of a sure thing as a everyday 4 however, and that gives me the nod over Swift's blocks, length and age. Swift is more likely to give you nothing than SAR, and the last thing we want is a terribly dissappointing guy at this point of Tmac and Yao's career. In this case take the surer thing.

    DM The most redudent of the group with Howard, both in terms of game, athletcism and age. He does give you 3 range that Howard doesn't and Howard is better inside 15 feet--but overall very similar. Still, like I said at the start, we need another PF who can play heavy minutes most of all--even if that guy is very similar to JH--and you can't be too choosy in finding a servicable PF with more than a couple of years left via the MLE.

    Reggie Evans. He is the most different of the group, and closer to the enforcer or at leats workhorse type. Athletic, great rebounder and better individual defender than the others (though Swift is better off the ball defender). Like Swift he is also mid20s. But he is awefull on offense 12 feet away or more, unlike the other choices or JH. He also is shorter than the rest. We also have another complication in that we have to outbid Seattle--which I think we could do because of who they need to sign--but a complication and potential 15 day waiting game where other options might close. Also, though he is the best individual defender, let's be honest, he isn't going to nuetrlize a great PF, as we are seeing in the Spurs series. The bottom line here is any of these PFs will need help versus TD, KJ, Stoud--etc, so maybe as long as they are not abysmal defensively the more damage on the other end and keeping our offense flowing is the best counter they can do, and here is where Evans is the weakest of the group.

    overall what I would do if I am the Rockets is I target SAR first (full MLE 6/37 or S&T), than Swift (6/37), than DM (full MLE but 4 years at the most) than Evans (full MLE 3 years or like 5 years with flat 4.5 mil (22.5 mil) per year to dissuede Seattle from matching. You have to realize we are not going to find an ideal guy (young PJ Brown) for MLE level money, yet we HAVE to get another legit 4 to share the burden with Howard somehow. You can't count on a draft pick or next years FA because then you waste another year of Yao and Tmac in their prime, and maybe not get anything better next year for the MLE or under. Thus we have to add the best 4 we can find who remotely fits in our current system and who would agree to a relatively reasonable contract--I think all these guys fit well enough. In a way we are not in too bad a situation, all we can offer is 6/37 mil--that will keep a player who might bomb like Swift (or Kwame) from killing us if we go the risky route. If we miss out on these four we can look at Kwame (depending on the fall out from this playoffs), Gadzuric (really a C), Songalia, Dale Davis, E Griffin, Fizer, Potapenko, all of whom for various reasons are much worse options that the four I focused on.

    So I think to stay on task it should be discussed in terms of SAR, Swift, DM, and Reggie Evans. Even the 1st two may be unrealistic with only an MLE we can offer, but at least SAR has a lot of power and could force a S&T to a team of his choice.
     
  5. Da Wink

    Da Wink Member

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    I'm intrigued about Wilcox going to the Rox. He's out of the rotation for the clippers. We could facilitate a trade even it involves our pick
     
  6. VesceySux

    VesceySux Contributing Member

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    1. Kurt Thomas (PF) for expiring contracts and a possible pick. Very, very possible. My #1 target.
    2. Bobby Simmons (SF) in free agency. Not as possible.
    3. Joey Graham (SF) in the draft. Very possible.

    Suddenly, our SF, PF, and SG (assuming we sign Barry again) positions look good, and we finally have a little depth. (We need Mutombo as well!)

    Sura/James/Spanoulis/Ward (arrrghh)
    T-Mac/Barry/Wesley
    Simmons/Graham/Bowen
    Thomas/Howard/Padgett
    Yao/Mutombo
     
  7. jopatmc

    jopatmc Contributing Member

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    Bottom line is, we have the MLE, our draft pick, and a pile of expiring contracts to work with. We are going to be much improved next year. I really don't care which way we go. I trust that CD and Van Gundy will do what is best for this team and they are just holding the cards right now, waiting for the best deal to drop in their lap. They are operating from a position of strength, not weakness. Whether it's Kurt Thomas, Swift, Chandler, the draft pick, Miles, or whoever, we are going to add speed, quickness, defense, and rebounding to what we had last year. That spells championship contender, and I can't wait.
     
  8. krocket

    krocket Contributing Member

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    From what everyone has indicated we just don't have the resources to get the people we need/want for next year. Can we really contend for the title in the West next year with what we can cobble together out of MLE's, S/T's, and expiring contracts. The anwer sounds like no, so do we really want to settle for a an older role player and give them a long contract, again? SAR is nearly 30 and will want 4-6 years, and the same with the rest. We are right back where we started from.

    We have to play Duncan, Garnet, and Nowitski to name a few and you can't do that with a so-so defender an contend for the title. If Chandler, or Curry, or Dalembert is the guy who can do the Job then get them or don't bother getting anyone until next year when we have 20mil in expiring contracts. Pick up an SF to give Tmac some rest, get some short contract role players, bring in our Euros and a draft pick, and wait until the trade deadline. If we don't get any action we like, so be it.
     
  9. Panda

    Panda Member

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    I don't see us getting Dalembert. Reggie Evans is interesting, but he isn't good at scoring. He can't block shots, can't assist and can't make FTs. At 6'8" he isn't what's ideal to put on guys like Duncan, Garnett or Dirk either. He can only impact the game in terms of rebounding, yet that impact will be severely reduced by his lack of other skills. That's why he's a backup. One of the things he relies on getting boards is his energy in 22 minutes he played, and I suspect that would go down with more minutes. If you put him behind Juan it'll be OK, but may not worth the full MLE.

    Swift is at the same height of SAR, and is less bulky. SAR has the edge in scoring and assisting, and Swift in shot blocking. Swift's assisting number is miniscule at .6. That's alarming if he's to become a starter. I don't know if Swift is the proverbial defensive stopper on the elite pfs though. On paper Swift's 9 points in 21 minutes type of scoring efficiecy is decent, but keep in mind he did it against the second unit of other teams. Against the Western starters he isn't a sure thing to provide enough scoring punch. Bottomline is, I don't see Swift better than Juan Howard on offense, so we only improve our defense with him starting. I'm confident that SAR improves our play on both ends of the court in place of Juan. SAR brings more things than JH. JH is soft like tissue paper under the basket.

    The importantance of a 3rd scorer can't be underestimated. Teams like the Mavs, Suns, and Spurs all have a legit 3rd option or a 4th option that's very close behind. The Sonics has a mix of scorers other than their two main guys. Unless Yao and T-Mac are at the collective level of Shaq/Kobe in their championship years, which I don't think they are yet, I don't see why should we neglect the need for a legit 3rd option. SAR fills the needs of this team, one being adding quality depth to the pf spot, one being adding another scorer to step up when T-Mac is cold, Yao is tired or fouls much, and guards can't shoot - things that happened at a noticable frequency might I add.
     
  10. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    That's the dream. The reality is, coming off however they finish this year, and relying on a future that includes Joe playing a ton of minutes, they'd be stupid not to resign him. One of the Suns problems is that if they lose any one of their starters, they lose a lot, because you are suddenly able to guard Jim Jackson on the rotation.

    It will be interesting to see in the next few games as he is having surgery and is out.
     
  11. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    I agree that SAR IS soft,esp. on the defensive side.He used to be so silky around the bucket,but hasn't been the same since his being injured.
    How about Jerome Williams to go with Eric Williams?It could be like Indiana,when they had the Davis boys.
    The Williams boys!
     
  12. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    The Rockets do need a third option but that third option should be a perimeter player. They should follow the Spurs, Mavs. and Suns model of success. One star big man (Duncan, Dirk, Amare) with a bunch of star guards (Parker, Ginobili, Terry, Finley, Nash, Q, JJ, etc.). Having a star center and power forward rarely works out, especially if both are soft.
     
  13. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    My main concern is we are paying him for 3 more years at an 8 mil average, his last year he will make 9 mil and will be 35. It is the same kind of corncern I have with Donyell. In essence JH, KurtT and DM (all currently 31.9-32.6) will age together and have their salaries rise. If we are going this route, all things considered I think DM (at say a 4 year MLE) is preferable than KurtT, even if Kurt is the slightly better fit right now. It would keep the salary a little down per year, we would keep our draft pick, and DM has a 3 ball that should not completely deteriorate.

    Possible and I do like the youth part. However 1st, I think Swift and SAR are much better and are free agents, and 2nd, I don't know if we could agree with compensation from the Clips. I'd probably do this year #1 and an expiring contract (but no more given what he has shown and injuries), and I don't know if the Clips would.

    If you are going to play GM what else are you going to talk about this summer then :)

    Our resources are as good as ever. We have an MLE, we have the 1.6 exemption, we have expiring contracts, we have our 1st rounders and a 2nd from NY. We have at least 4 good PF candidates of whom the MLE is in the ballpark. This is as good as time as any to address our 4 spot.

    By the way, if you mean SAR is almost 30 by turning 28 this December, yeah, I guess he is almost 30. SAR being 28.4 is a major advantage over JH 32.2, DM 31.9 and KuT 32.6.

    Further, what we are playing with here is maxmimum 6 year 37 mil--maybe a little more with a S&T for SAR. The scenario you are suggesting, e.g., trading expiring contracts, half of our draft picks the next 4 years, and paying 10 mil year for Chandler, Curry or Dalembert--that is the kind of deal if it goes bad that kills you.

    Right now we want an extra legit NBA 4. Someone who with JH can make some of those guys work and little and keep Tmac from guarding them unlike what we had to do with Padget, Bowen, Spoon. It doesn't matter who you get, you still need to double TD or KG--but a guys can help in other ways. Add that guy, and an extra decent swingman, that could very well be all we need around Tmac and Yao. We need merely adequate players the way the Lakers and Bulls acquired servicable role players around Shaq, Kobe, Jordan, Pippen, etc, and the MLE is the most likely route.
     
    #93 Desert Scar, May 12, 2005
    Last edited: May 12, 2005
  14. kingxdingaling

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    I would really like to see Van Exel and Chandler here for next

    year. SAR would also be a great pickup...I've been want SAR

    since the start of the season!
     
  15. Yaomania345

    Yaomania345 Member

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    If the rockets cant get bobby simmons we should target the athletic freak Gerald Wallace. Damon Stoudemire would also be a good option at PG.
     
  16. gucci888

    gucci888 Contributing Member

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    1. Donyell Marshall- Great shooter for his size, good rebounder, has an all around nice game.

    2. Tyson Chandler- Great rebounder and defender, a Chandler/Yao combo would be nasty inside. A pipe dream most likely.

    3. SAR- Kind a like Marshall w/o the 3s. Does a lot of things well.

    Draft: Wayne Simien or Francisco Garcia.
     
  17. New Jack

    New Jack Member

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    If the Rockets do end up signing SAR, the first thing they need to do immediately after that is find someone to take Howard off their hands. Having two players that are so similar on the same team is just asking for trouble. The Rockets should know this better than anyone having experienced the problems of Cat and Steve together all those years and the problems last year with Taylor and Howard. It just didn't work. The Magic tried it the year before with Gooden and Howard. It didn't work either.

    Shareef and Howard are both players that need starter minutes to be effective. Neither guy has proven to be any good coming of the bench. Add in the possibility of the Rockets drafting a power forward, and there will definitely not be enough PT for the both of them to be comfortable.

    Let's say the Rockets sign SAR and play him 30 minutes a game, leaving 18 for Howard. Juwan Howard is not the type of player that can come off the bench and provide instant offense. He doesn't get his points in bunches like Mike James. He gradually accumulates points throughout the game. Have him come off the bench, and he'll become worthless. The Rockets will end up paying Howard 6-7 million the next 4 years to average 5 points and 3 rebounds a game.
     
  18. Gatorfan76

    Gatorfan76 Contributing Member

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    Since the Rox glaring needs are in the point guard and power forward positions I figured I would post the Top 10 prospects in each position according to ESPN's NBA Insider---Discuss....

    http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=1946074

    TOP 10 POWER FORWARDS--

    1. Chris Taft 6-10, 250 lbs - Sophomore Pittsburgh
    2. Fran Vazquez 6-10, 230 lbs - 21 yrs Spain
    3. Martynas Andriuskevicius 7-3, 230 lbs - 19 yrs Lithuania
    4. Tiago Splitter 6-10, 240 lbs - 19 yrs Brazil
    5. Hakim Warrick 6-8, 218 lbs - Senior Syracuse
    6. Sean May 6-9, 260 lbs - Junior North Carolina
    7. Andray Blatche 6-11, 230 lbs - HS Senior South Kent (CT)
    8. Charlie Villanueva 6-11, 240 lbs - Sophomore UConn
    9. Wayne Simien 6-9, 255 lbs - Senior Kansas
    10. Ike Diogu 6-8, 255 lbs - junior Arizona State

    Best of the rest:
    Ronny Turiaf, Gonzaga; David Lee, Florida; Axel Hervelle, Belgium; Erazem Lorbek, Skipper Bologna (Italy); Angelo Gigli, Italy; Lawrence Roberts, Mississippi State; Jason Maxiell, Cincinnati; Pops Mensah-Bonsu, George Washington; Kevin Pittsnogle, West Virginia; Torin Francis, Notre Dame;Michael Harris, Rice; Chevon Troutman, Pittsburgh; Ivan McFarlin, Oklahoma State; Jeremiah Massey, Kansas State; Chuck Hayes, Kentucky; Taylor Coppenrath, Vermont; Juan Mendez, Niagara; Yiannis Bouroussis, Greece; Drago Pasalic, Croatia; Uros Slokar, Slovenia;


    TOP 10 POINT GUARDS --

    1. Chris Paul 6-1, 195 lbs - Sophomore Wake Forest
    2. Deron Williams 6-3, 210 lbs - Junior Illinois
    3. Raymond Felton 6-0, 180 lbs - Junior North Carolina
    4. Jarrett Jack 6-3, 200 lbs - Junior Georgia Tech
    5. Monta Ellis 6-3, 175 lbs - HS Senior Lanier High School (MS)
    6. John Gilchrist 6-3, 200 lbs - Junior Maryland
    7. Roko Leni Ukic 6-5, 185 lbs - 20 yrs Croatia
    8. Nate Robinson 5-9, 190 lbs - Junior Washington
    9. Dee Brown 5-11, 185 lbs - Junior Illinois
    10. Luther Head 6-3, 200 lbs - Senior Illinois


    Best of the rest:

    Daniel Ewing, Duke; Will Conroy, Washington; Filiberto Rivera, UTEP; Chris Thomas, Notre Dame; Travis Diener, Marquette; Carl Krauser, Pittsburgh; Anthony Roberson, Florida; Aaron Miles, Kansas; Orien Green Louisiana-Lafayette; Jose Juan Barea, Northeastern; Chris Hernandez, Stanford; David Logan, Indianapolis; Bryan Hopkins, SMU; Ivan Koljevic, Serbia; Ender Arslan, Turkey; Marcelo Huertas, Brazil
     
  19. Plowman

    Plowman Contributing Member
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    Sean May,Jarret Jack,Hakim Warrick,Lawrence Roberts
    I think May is going to be much better than many believe.May might be somewhat athletically challenged,but he has nice moves on the block,and a soft touch to match.Also,he plays 6'11" with those long arms.It would appear that he has matured and his game reflects it.Sean's a ghost of the player he was in last year's tourney against UT.Big strides here...My question mark about him is on defense,where we need help at the 4.But he's too good a player(at a need position) to not be interested.
    On Jarret Jack,I I see his game transferring very well to the NBA.He can lock guys down on D and bust that deep jumper.Might be a bit of a tweener,but it didn't hurt Joe Dumars.
    Hakim Warrick,unlike the previous two seems to me as a hit or miss prospect...good upside though...a little smallish,but that doesn't necessarily mean anything.
    ...and Lawrence Roberts...somebody is going to flat out steal this guy.
     
  20. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    I think these two and JH all have a lot in common.

    However while not as good a 3 shooter as Marshall, SAR has shot 38% since being at Portland. It his not his mainstay, but he can hit them. To me he has most of the best attributes of DM and JH's inside and outside games in a 3-4 years younger, more complete, more consistent, package.

    You could give SAR 24 minutes at the 4, JH 24 minutes at the 4, and SAR 8-10 minutes at the 3. SAR could upgrade our starting 4 spot and back-up 3 spot in one move. Keeping JH (he will turn 33 next midseason) minutes down to 24 might maximize his effectiveness--enough to get him in the flow without worrying about him pacing himself. JH also can pick up back-up C minutes if Yao and Deke becomes hobbled.
     

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