I think the only one is biggio Bagwell will be a victim of steroids. Berkman has chance if he plays a while longer Oswalt - I doubt it
Biggio 1st ballot Bagwell 2nd or 3rd try, I think he'll find his way in Berkman has a chance, but def. needs to play for a while. Maybe 5-6 more years at a relatively high level. Oswalt, extremely doubtful. He's not sure about pitching much longer, and I'd say he should stick around pitching well till he's 40 to get the stats he'd need.
biggio will get in first ballot bagwell hasn't been specifically mentioned in any steroid reports so he that going for him. It's possible he gets in right away but as long as he stays off any bad lists he should be in eventually. berkman would have to continue at at least his current level for another 5-6 years... it's possible With the modern rotation and bullpen, it's less clear what pitching criteria needs to be met to be a hall of famer. By the end of every year since he was called up, he's been in the handful of best pitchers in baseball. His consistency is matched only by santana and halliday in that time frame. If he keeps up a high level of performance for 5 or so more years, I don't see how you don't put him in. However, I don't see him sticking around that long.
I think Lance has a really good shot at surpassing most of Bagwell's numbers. If he gets up to 500 dingers (194 to go), then maybe he gets in. If he's consistent for another 4-5 seasons then he'll get there.
Bagwell was more victimized by his shoulder than anything else. Can you *imagine* if he didn't have that degenerative shoulder condition? He showed no signs of letting up until his shoulder fell off in 2002--and he *still* produced some even after that. I think we'd be debating whether he could get 600.
good point! I don't know about moreso, but it's definitely a huge factor. I hope those near-sighted, "coast-vision" writers have done enough research and watched enough baseball to see Bags for what he was--one of the top five NL first basemen all time.
The weight loss the sudden and severity of his career ending. These are signs that are hard to ignore.
but it's easy to ignore the shoulder condition? And there was nothing "sudden" about his career ending. When my grandfather retired, he dropped twenty or thirty pounds and like 6 inches around his chest. THAT PROVES IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!111
and while you witch-hunters are pointing at pictures on the web and levying the same tired crap all over again about someone whose name has never even come up in passing, can you name five NL firstbasemen who were better?
A arthritic shoulder that worsened over five years. A condition that his father happens to have. You think you would see the condition more often in baseball if because of steroid use. Until he is testifying to congress, admitting to guilt, being named in steroid reports, or testing positive, then his innocence will be presumed. Steroids will not keep Bags out.
I'm young so I can only say from what I've seen is Pujols is the only 1B in the NL I've ever seen that is better. Berkman is Bagwell minus the baserunning, and is a lesser defensive player. Bagwell is the best 1B of his era.
Right! Too many people remember bags circa 2003-2005, when his shoulder was falling off. They forget that wicked arm he had, how many sac-bunts he turned into DP's. Hit: check Hit for power: check Field: check Throw: check Run the bases: check Five tools, baby. Mark "One Trick" McGwire has nothing on him. The Big Hurt outlasted him but didn't have all the tools. You got to look at the all-time greats to find 1B better than Bagwell.
Thomas spent most of his career at DH, so I don't like to qualify him in the discussion though he is probably the closest. Palmeiro would be there, but he tested positive for steroids. Then you have Thome, Delgado, & McGriff. There are very few players who can be that good at so many things. He was a smart player. People forget that he was a 3B when the Astros traded for him, and was moved because of Caminiti.
absolutely. This list http://www.thebaseballpage.com/positions/rankings/1B.php shows him at #18 all time among all 1B's. The only NL 1B's they have better are: Dan Brouthers of the 1800's Buck Leonard of the Negro League Ernie Banks Willie McCovey Roger Connor of the 1800's Dick Allen Frank Chance of the 1800's/early 1900's Johnny Mize Tony Perez Gil Hodges The only guy remotely close to Bagwell's era on that list (including the AL guys that I didn't list) is Tony Perez, and his career ran from '64 to '86. So yeah, I'd personally go with Bagwell as the best 1B in his era, and I can't imagine anyone disagreeing with "best NL 1B in his era".
I think that Bagwell will get in on his second ballot, Biggio on his first. Only fitting that they enter the Hall of Fame together. I do think that Berkman will have a Hall of Fame career, but Roy O probably won't stick around long enough to get the numbers. Hmmm....no chance for Lima Time, eh?
As for who has the best chance, it probably goes in order as listed above, with only Biggio and Bagwell on track to get in at this point. In terms of who deserves it, I think it should go Biggio then Oswalt then Berkman. With that entire class of hitters Baggy belonged to, at this point he has a poor case even in this diehard Astros fan's book at proving that he was clean throughout his career. In baseball now, it's guilty until proven innocent for anyone that has hit over 40 homers. Berkman gets a pass in my book for being a fat Texan that has been an outspoken proponent of steroids testing because he knows his legacy is being hurt by everyone else cheating. Oswalt in particular I feel deserves to make it if he keeps his career pace up. Pitching in a hitter's era as he has, his numbers given his size have been astounding. But he would need to have the longevity to win 200 at least to do it.
