Where Does the Conservative Anti-Government Mantra Come From?

It is cyclical, they use people to get elected, then spend more money and create bigger deficits once they are in power.

The only people that would suffer under a national healthcare program are the insurance companies and their massive lobby.

DD

 

Perhaps because of your law specialty and a lifetime of linear thinking, glynch, you have these perceptions of a grand conservative conspiracy when the simple truth, IMO, is that most U.S. citizens just want to be left alone. It's called personal freedom. More government is more restrictions.

Also, I just wanted to address something from another thread where you and Refman were debating. My parents were fierce Ralph Yarborough "Yellow Dog" Democrats, but I was a moderate conservative from an early age. I was a natural John Connally Democrat early on -- maybe that's why I was (and am) still a fan of LBJ, one of his closest friends and allies (yes, I know, LBJ was liberal and Big John was not). Despite some failures and illnesses, whether dirt poor or relatively rich, I have never had an unlucky day in my life. So, how does that fit your model? (Answer that to yourself -- I don't wish to derail your thread.)

 

They want less government when attacking the policies they don't like. But ignore it for things they want. It is a campaign slogan that they think they believe.




I wish I could find the chart showing the federal deficits under the republican/democratic presidents. My googling failed to locate it.

 

Isn't that the very nature of man? -- Grab the candy and resist the spinach.

 

Increased wait times is suffering to me.

I got EITC last year. I didn't need the extra cash. I really don't know why the government wanted to give me money, but I wasn't going to turn down money being thrown at me. I don't think they should have given me the money. I think there are are a lot more people that didn't need that money. After taxes, and Medicaid/WIC programs it made more sense for my wife to not work, because we received more in benefits and after tax dollars then we made when she was working. Medicaid has given us numerous headaches though(not that private is any better). I see tons of wasteful spending in the WIC voucher program. I have to ask myself why I can't have PeachCare for my son where I would have to pay small premiums, but instead have to accept Medicaid where I pay nothing. I should pay something. There should be some sort of staggered system. Instead we have an all or nothing system. I see an amazingly flawed system, and everyone seems to ignore where many of the flaws are.

 

"The Republicans are the party that says government doesn't work and then get elected and prove it."

P.J. O'ROURKE, Holidays in Hell

 

QFT!!

 

for fiscal conservatives its the economic school of thought that says its bad

Obviously most other conservatives are not anti-government in any sense of the word. But since they lost the elections they're paying lip service to the fiscal conservatives again.

 

Its not about anti-government, its about less government. Government has a place in my life. And there are places it should not be involved in my life.

It comes down to power in the market and power in the law. Both will strangle you if given too much power. Its a bit harder to fight back against the law when it has the biggest police force in the world behind it. Its a whole lot easier to abuse power when its given to a select few, even if they are in office for a short while. The typical rhetoric is, "well, (insert your fav. politician here) wouldn't abuse power, but the fact remains, someone will eventually abuse the power. I harp on SS... forcefully taking 12% of my income for my retirement, which I believe I will never get, is an abuse of power. I don't need or want the government running the private aspects of my life. If I screw up or something bad happens, then I will handle the problem and not expect a bailout from the government.

 

Except conservatives want MORE gov't in our lives, not less.

They want the gov't to say people can't have abortions. Or that gays can't marry - this is the gov't taking away personal freedoms. How does that fit your model?

Conservatives don't want the gov't messing with their medicare, except that medicare is a gov't run program. So is the education system. Conservatives want personal freedom and less gov't - so they are in favor of banks giving out really bad loans to people who can't afford to repay them so our whole financial system collapses?

 

Gov't is in your life no matter what. The idea that gov't in your life = less freedom is very strange indeed. How does having the gov't telling insurance companies that they can't deny you treatment hurt you?

If you want less gov't - here's some of the things you are advocating by the way:

Social Security:

The money they take from you isn't for YOUR retirement. It's for the people who are CURRENTLY retired. You are paying for the welfare of the elderly. Take away social security, and you will have a lot of impoverished old people.

Financial: Less gov't would mean less regulation. This would mean brokers would be able to lie to you and practice aggresive techniques to make you buy investments that were risky then you were made aware to be. It also means lenders could discriminate against you based on age, sex, and race. That's less regulation for ya.

Safety: Imagine if the gov't stepped out of the way and industrial companies started dumping carcinogenic fluids into your ground water, making the lawns your kids play on a lot less safe. How about if the FDA didn't get involved in testing or regulating the foods and drugs you consume? Do you want to be more free to consume less safe products? What about your kids?

Social: Less gov't means more abortion rights and more gay marriage. Hey, that's pretty liberal!

HealthCare: You already spend more on healthcare than any other nation does. You spend more then your counterpart in Canada, France, the U.K....and guess what, you get worse care for the dollar spent, not better. The money you spent helps others get rich while they cut corners to give you cheaper care so they can maximize profits. You have less regulation, congrats on getitng crappy care and not even realizing it. You've been duped.

 

Your logic is ill-conceived -- and it fits perfectly with my model. Conservatives don't say people "can't" have abortions. We just don't want to fund them with tax payer dollars. Also, conservatives (in my case anyway) don't really care if homosexuals have civil unions with full insurance and other benefits. IMO, live and let live -- as long as I am unaffected.

Where do you get these notions? Oh, quit reading the Daily Kos and the New York Times and go for more reputable sources. We're in favor of bad loans? Conservatives believe Medicare and public schools aren't government run? Oh, come on. Gig us for something real rather than from your imagination.

 

Abortions - It has nothing to do with the government and everything to do with the definition of life
Gay Marriage - States rights issue.
Medicare - Like SS, people have become dependent on it. This is a debate on its own
Gov Education system - Its complete crap
Banking system - Its pretty obvious you do not know what led us to this problem. Its a string of government regulations that led to this, not the banks themselves.

 

So let me get this straight, Conservatives want to control what procedures doctors can perform on their patients if the patients is using medicare or another gov't run program for health care???

That sounds a lot like conservatives are trying to use the gov't to play big brother to me.

And so conservatives want to say the gov't should deny certain groups health care benefits from PRIVATE insurers because they don't like gays? Wow, that's the gov't really interfering.

I think you have no idea what "less gov't" really means. No, this is about enforcing your ethics upon others...nothing to do wit the level of gov't.

There is no substance to your argument. You can try to spin it as you want, but really, you just want to enforce your biblical beliefs upon others through the gov't which to me, is the worst kind of gov't in our lives.

 

You are a funny guy. In 1994, I was packaging bad loans that wouldn't sell into something called Asset Backed securities, which instantly got AAA ratings. It was a total joke. I knew back then the CMO market was a sham.

The loans were bad, banks were giving away money. You know what happened, housing builders, loan companies, and banks...and their servicers - all made a ton of money - that's where all the money went.

The folks who got duped were the guys were the tax payers. Congrats on knowing next to nothing.

You can weasel your way out of each argument, but in reality, both you and thumbs have no clue what the role of good gov't is.

 

Actually, it was the gutting of Glass-Steagall, the regulatory framework created after the Great Depression, that led to this problem. Banks are in business to make money, period. The government regulations are in place to make sure that the banks don't play fast and loose with depositor's funds in order to pay off the shareholders.

 

And if you disagree with conservatives, it must be because you are a stinking liberal right? Just ridiculous what these guys are coming up with.

To think I once described myself as a conservative. Thank goodness for the internet to enlighten me what most conservatives actually think.

 

And their off........

 

"The two enemies of the people are criminals and government, so let us tie the second down with the chains of the Constitution so the second will not become the legalized version of the first."

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny."

Thomas Jefferson