I gag everytime I hear ESPN or other NBA media detailing the greatest centers of all time - Russell, Jabbar, Chamberlain, and now Shaq is included. Why not Hakeem? He won the same number of rings as Shaq (will likely change soon) and even bested Shaq in the Finals. He also played in an era with better post men - Barkley, Malone, D. Rbinson, Ewing, Mutumbo, etc were all in their prime. Why is Hakeem forgotten? Because he stayed on too long and he media has forgotten how dominant he once was? I think if Hakeem had been a Knick for his career, he would ifgure more prominently bd he would have had the East Coast bias working in his favor. Personally, I think Hakeem, in his prime was the best. He played D better than Chamberlain (from what i've seen on ESPN classic) and had better O than Russell. I think it is a crime he hasnt been included in the canon.
Well, I know I will get serious flaming gor this, but I think Hakeem doesn't get mentioned with the big three because he's just not quite on thier level. Now before ZRB starts making a voodoo doll of me let me make my case. 1. Chamberlain- IMO the greatest player ever to put on sneakers. Dominant on offense to the point of ludicrousness (is that a word?) Despite what you say you've seen on ESPNClassic, he was an incredible defensive player. One year with the Lakers, just to prove a point, he led the league in ASSISTS! 4 time MVP 2. Rusell- 11 rings The greatest rebounder of all time. The greatest defender of all time. 5 time MVP. 3. Jabbar- 6 time MVP. 6 rings. Alltime scoring leader. When he retired he was the all time leader in over 20 statistical catagories. Now which one of those guys was Hakeem better then? I'll listen to any argument, but I think when you take away the home town bias, he's number 4.
Hakeem is the greatest center of all time. He played the best basketball in the toughest era. Meanwhile, Shaq has to contend with the likes of Vitaly Potapenko and Jerome James. I'm not trying to deny Shaq's greatness, but Hakeem had it much tougher. Dream is never mentioned among the greats because his name is Hakeem Olajuwon. It doesn't exactly roll off the tongue if you're the average casual fan/complete twit that the media caters to. When he won titles, he didn't go on self-congratulating rampages. He was also pretty quiet from the marketing standpoint. Combine all that with Houstonm being a small market, and just simple ignorance from many of today's sportswriters, and the greatest center ever is completely ignored.
Htownhero- My last post was made before I saw yours. Your argument is strong, and I see where you are coming from. A case can be made that those three centers were better than Hakeem. However, including Shaq among those players and NOT including Hakeem is pure idiocy and ignorance.
We agree completely on the Shaq issue. He is only as dominant as he is because the league allows him to be. Also, I could see a case against Jabbar. Personally, I don't think being good for 20 years is as good as being great for 12-15, but most people see the MVP's and rings as the difference maker that puts him in that elite group. I never liked the guy and I hate the Lakers, so I'm probably a little biased against him.
I would put Hakeem on a list of the top 5 centers of all time. I know he wouldn't be #1, in my opinion Russell is the best player of all time and not just because of the 11 rings but that doesn't hurt. My list would probably look like this: 1. Russell 2. Chamberlain 3. Abdul-Jabbar 4. Olajuwon 5. O'Neal Add to the fact that Hakeem is really only around 6'10" makes him a little more impressive to me that he pulled off everything he did/does.
in our championship years hakeem played at an unmatched level. he was the single most dominant player i have ever seen, more than jordan, more than wilt, more than russell. his 93-94 season was the greatest individual performance ever. like zrb said hakeem is overlooked only because he is hakeem and he played for the rockets and not the glorious lakers or celtics. shaq is the current most dominant player and deserves the recognition he gets, but no one can tell me that if hakeem in his prime had, lets say, clyde in his prime right next to him that he wouldn't have 4 or 5 rings. or even with a healthy sampson he would have gotten at least 2 more. it's hard to argue the greatest ever at center, i'll just make it a 4-way tie with wilt, russell, hakeem, and kareem.
Well, I think Hakeem might not be mentioned with some of those players, because his overall accomplishments haven't been as great. He never won near as many championships as Kareem, he doesn't have the all-time scoring numbers some of those other players had, and he played on a team with a smaller market, stuff like that. All that is pretty objective, but if you want to be subjective, and just look at pure, all-around basketball skill, I don't think there's any other center that even comes close to Hakeem. Most other centers were so good simply because of their height and strength. Sure some of them had ONE nice move like Kareem and the sky hook, but none of them had the complete arsenal of moves like Hakeem. Hakeem would have been pretty damn good if he was 6'5". The others would not. Just in my opinion, what Hakeem could do was more unbelievable than what those other guys could do. And people can say that Russell would be the best shot-blocker of all-time if they kept the stat in the olden days, but I don't think there's ever been a player with more block AND steals in the NBA. And to me, this makes Hakeem the best defensive player ever. That has to count for something when you're looking at who is the best center of all time. And I know making this comparison is pretty dumb, but its hard for me to compare players from such a long time ago to current players in the NBA. I have a hard time believing that Wilt and Russell would be as effective if they were playing in today's game.
I think this will sum it up. Hakeem is the most complete center ever. Russell couldn't score to save his life,Wilt wasn't a good defender, and Jabbar wasn't a good rebounder. Hakeem was a mix of them all. He has over 20000pts,10000rebs and he's the only player in the history of basketball to be in the top 10 in blks and steals. Wilt has the gaudy stats,Russll has the rings, and Jabbar has the MVP's, but in his prime, Hakeem to me was better than all 3. He's always been underrated in the NBA because he spoke with a accent and kicked a little ass when he came into the league, but when its all said and done,people give him his due and the numbers speak for themself
I don't think you can minimize the greatness of Wilt, Russell, or Jabbar. However, I think there a several points that are relevant. 1) Hakeem played on worse teams. Does anyone really think the Rocket teams compare to the Sixers/Lakers of Wilt, the Celtics of Russell, or the Bucks/Lakers of Kareem? Those three played alongside other greats like The Big O, Magic, Worthy, Havlicek, Cousy, Goodrich, Baylor, and West. Hakeem played with an old Drexler and Barkley. Only Drexler for a year at the end of his prime. 2) Wilt physically overmatched the centers he played against. 7 footers were not the norm during his career, and he spent most of it shooting from four feet over guys he had a four or five inch advantage on. 3) Russell was not a complete player. No O and no need since others carried the offensive burden. Put Hakeem on ANY of their teams and he'd have won as many rings and MVPs. Example: Put Hakeem with Baylor and West. Do you think they could win a title? Wilt couldn't win with those two. And NONE of those three won a ring without another perennial All Star. Hakeem did (unless you think OTs SINGLE All-Star appearance while with Sacramento counts)... He at a minimum deserves to be put in the same breath as those three, and undoubtably deserves to be rated higher than Shaq.
Russell's offensive numbers were atrocious -- something like 40 percent from the field for his career. When you consider he was playing against midgets, that's just plain awful. To HayesStreet's point, I recently watched the '87 Rockets/Sonics decisive game again on ESPN Classic. For key parts of the game, the Rocket lineup was Akeem, Steve Harris, a totally useless by that time Ralph Sampson, Rodney McCray, and Dirk Minniefield. You think the Rocket offense is painful to watch now, you should've seen that crew trying to come up with baskets. I mean it was literally throw it to Akeem, and pray. Keep in mind this was a conference semifinal game. Amazingly, the Rockets almost won the game, thanks to 49 and 25 from Akeem. This was the story for much of his career -- it wasn't until he was surrounded by such great talent as Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, and Otis Thorpe, that things began to turn around for him. No wonder nobody remembers him.
With respect to Hakkem being #1 in blokcs, keep in mind that blocks weren't kept as a stat for Chamberlain and Russell and some of the years for Jabbar. It is highly likely Wilt's block numbers were greater than Hakeem's.
Had Hakeem retired two years ago perhaps these sports writers would have a better taste in their mouth..It's tough to put him in the top 5 when he is averaging spare change against the week line of centers the league has to offer now..Those other centers: The Jabbars and so on dminated well past their prime.
I agree completely with this...except I might move Olajuwon ahead of Abdul-Jabbar...but he's certainly on a very short list of great all-time centers.
The one thing that hurts Dream is his injury history. If he had played consistently throughout his entire career he would have accomplished a lot more and it would be harder to argue against him. With that in mind I wouldn't put him ahead of Wilt or Bill, but definately ahead of Jabbar. It's not like Dream had Magic on his side. Even then him and Sampson beat that lakers team in a series in Dream's second year. What Wilt and Bill did in their time was great, but it's not like the league was flooding with competetion. It was pretty much those two. They say a measure of greatness is how you fare against your peers. Well Dream DOMINATED his. Ewing, Mourning, Mutumbo, Shaq (young, but things wouldn't be that different,) Robinson, I'm sorry; robinson. All of you make good points, especially the Houston market ones. If Dream were a laker or knick, his name would be compared to Russell and Wilt on a regular basis. Bottom Line: 1. Wilt 2. Russell 3. Dream 4. Jabbar 5. Shaq
Russell wouldn't have won one title, let alone 11, if he wasn't surrounded by Hall of Famers at every position. He was a two-dimensional, defense and rebounding guy with zero offensive game. Bill Russell was Dikembe Mutombo minus the height. Wilt and Kareem are the only players who deserve to be listed above Hakeem, based on career contributions. My top 5: (1) Wilt (2) Kareem (3) Hakeem (4) Moses Malone (5) Shaq (moves up the list if he keeps up his current level of production)
