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Where Could the Astros End Up in Expansion Realignment?

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by Brando2101, May 24, 2017.

  1. Brando2101

    Brando2101 Contributing Member

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    The MLB is believed to want expansion to even out the teams in each league. That could result in moving back to two divisions in each league or 4 divisions of 4 teams each. The latter makes more sense however you'll always have a team win a division that's not that great. A return of the Montreal Expos is the most common rumor. The cities that have been thrown around for the 2nd team are Vancouver, Mexico City, Charlotte, Las Vegas and Portland. Vancouver has a NHL and MLS team. Charlotte has a NBA and NFL team. Las Vegas just got a NHL team and is adding a NFL team. Portland has a MLS team. I doubt Vegas is in position to pay for another stadium and I have no idea about any potential stadiums in the other cities. Groups are currently calling for a referendum in Montreal to fund a new stadium. Mexico City is interesting but I feel like the MLB Player's Association would have a problem with it.

    One issue with expansion is that the league is still trying to figure out what to do with the Rays and A's. Those are the only 2 teams that don't have an acceptable stadium. The Royals might be the next team that becomes an issue since their lease runs out in 2030 but that shouldn't impact expansion. However, if there are two cities that vote to build a stadium then they will get a team no matter what is going on with the Rays and Tampa.


    So here are my proposals. There are a few things to consider.


    -Trying to group teams in similar timezones is going to be a priority.
    -The Rays and Diamondbacks had a clause in their expansion agreement where they could be moved from one league to another without their consent but that has expired. Still, those might be the easiest teams to move since they are relatively new.
    -The Brewers jumped from the AL to the NL not too long ago so that could also be a team you could move with less fuss.
    -I don't see a way to keep the Pirates with the Cubs, Cards and Reds which is unfortunate.




    AL WEST
    Oakland As
    LA Angels
    Seattle Mariners
    Expansion: Portland/Vancouver/Las Vegas

    AL SOUTH
    Texas Rangers
    Houston Astros
    Kansas City Royals
    Colorado Rockies or Arizona Diamondbacks

    AL NORTH
    Chicago White Sox
    Detroit Tigers
    Minnesota Twins
    Cleveland Indians

    AL EAST
    NY Yankees
    Baltimore Orioles
    Boston Red Sox
    Toronto Blue Jays


    NL WEST
    La Dodgers
    San Fran Giants
    San Diego Padres
    Colorado Rockies or Arizona Diamondbacks

    NL SOUTH
    Miami Marlins
    Washington Nationals
    Tampa Bay Rays
    Atlanta Braves

    NL NORTH
    Chicago Cubs
    St Louis Cards
    Cincy Reds
    Milwaukee Brewers

    NL EAST
    Ny Mets
    Philly Phillies
    Montreal Expos
    Pitt Pirates



    ________


    AL WEST
    Oakland As
    LA Angels
    Seattle Mariners
    Colorado Rockies or Arizona Diamondbacks

    AL SOUTH
    Texas Rangers
    Houston Astros
    Kansas City Royals
    Expansion: Mexico City

    AL NORTH
    Chicago White Sox
    Detroit Tigers
    Minnesota Twins
    Cleveland Indians

    AL EAST
    NY Yankees
    Baltimore Orioles
    Boston Red Sox
    Toronto Blue Jays


    NL WEST
    La Dodgers
    Colorado Rockies or Arizona Diamondbacks
    San Fran Giants
    San Diego Padres

    NL SOUTH
    Miami Marlins
    Washington Nationals
    Atlanta Braves
    Tampa Bay Rays

    NL NORTH
    Chicago Cubs
    St Louis Cards
    Cincy Reds
    Milwaukie Brewers

    NL EAST
    Ny Mets
    Philly Phillies
    Montreal Expos
    Pitt Pirates


    ________


    AL WEST
    Oakland As
    LA Angels
    Seattle Mariners
    Colorado Rockies or Arizona Diamondbacks

    AL SOUTH
    Texas Rangers
    Houston Astros
    Kansas City Royals
    Tampa Bay Rays


    AL NORTH
    Chicago White Sox
    Detroit Tigers
    Minnesota Twins
    Cleveland Indians

    AL EAST
    NY Yankees
    Baltimore Orioles
    Boston Red Sox
    Toronto Blue Jays


    NL WEST
    La Dodgers
    Colorado Rockies or Arizona Diamondbacks
    San Fran Giants
    San Diego Padres

    NL SOUTH
    Miami Marlins
    Atlanta Braves
    Washington Nationals
    Expansion: Charlotte / Memphis

    NL NORTH
    Chicago Cubs
    St Louis Cards
    Cincy Reds
    Milwaukee Brewers

    NL EAST
    Ny Mets
    Philly Phillies
    Montreal Expos
    Pitt Pirates
     
    #1 Brando2101, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
    HTM likes this.
  2. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    No to expansion.
     
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  3. Buck Turgidson

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    There are 15 teams in each league. That was the impetus for the whole "move the Astros to the AL" thing you must have missed a few years ago.
     
  4. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Expansion is coming. I expect BAMTech to be sold first, though as owners likely want to divide up the 2.5 billion or so between 30 owners instead of 32.
     
  5. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    I don't think MLB should expand because there are already teams who can't sustain high enough payrolls to avoid a huge competitive disadvantage. Until those teams can either fix their financial situation to be competitive or move to a city that will allow them to compete, they shouldn't add more teams that will likely be in the same boat.

    The ONLY thing I would care about in a realignment is that Houston move to a division with all teams located in CST. The west coast start times are ****ing ridiculous.

    If I were in charge, instead of expansion I would be advocating affiliated minor leagues on every continent plus Canada and Mexico. You can keep the current minor league teams as they are, but create new affiliated leagues subsidized by MLB. The brand and game awareness expansion would eventually pay off in spades.

    4 8 team AAA level leagues in Japan, Mexico, the Caribbean, and Korea

    4 8 team AA level leagues in Venezuela, Europe, Canada, and Australia

    4 8 team A ball or Rookie level leagues in Brazil, China, Peru, and Argentina
     
    #5 Snake Diggit, May 24, 2017
    Last edited: May 24, 2017
  6. Brando2101

    Brando2101 Contributing Member

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    15 is an odd number. The goal is to get it to 16 team leagues so you don't have to have inter league play all year around. The moved the Astros because they had an opportunity to force a move because of the sale. The MLB wasn't ready to expand but it looks like they are getting closer to it.


    I don't understand your point. Adding teams that you believe can support themselves and be successful helps improve the league. Adding a team in Montreal is not going to make it harder for the Rays to operate. This is especially true when so much revenue is tied to a stadium so adding teams that have funded new stadiums puts them in a good place financially right off the bat.

    I agree about the timezones. I placed The Astros in a division where 3 out of the 4 teams are in the central timezone. The D-Backs would be 2 hours behind since they don't do daylight savings and the Rockies would be 1 hour behind. The Mexico City option would place all 4 teams in the same timezone.
     
    Rodman23 likes this.
  7. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    Teams that can't sustain competitive payrolls are bad for the game, from both a financial and entertainment perspective. Until the teams in thT situation are resolved, they don't need to add any more teams. Why add a team in Montreal (which likely could only sustain a payroll in the bottom third of the league, and that's with revenue sharing), when it will just further dilute things and lessen parity?
     
  8. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    Getting teams out of bad stadiums shouldn't affect expansion unless those teams can go to the expanding cities, which I doubt. If you can add two financially able teams, that should reduce the drag of the teams struggling, you do it. That's like saying the Astros shouldn't take Yonder Alonso for Moran until the Astros get their SP figured out.
     
  9. Brando2101

    Brando2101 Contributing Member

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    So first, Oakland is about set to announce a new stadium that is being privately financed leaving just the Rays. Second, A way to help offset a bad product is to introduce products that have a high likelihood of financial success. In this case, adding teams that will playing brand new ballparks which will generate all the new club, suite etc revenue is a great and safe investment. I don't understand your logic at all.


    Again, I don't understand the logic if you are confident that you are adding profit to the league. The new designs have way more clubs and suites that generate a lot of money, are designed to better incorporate corporate advertising and they are just a much better experience for the fans in terms of the look and feel and sight lines. Going to MMP after the dome was amazing. The Miami Marlins had a drastic increase in payroll after their own stadium was built.

    In terms of team payrolls, the top 3rd of MLB teams have higher payrolls than all NFL teams. That's because there is a hard cap in the NFL. I bring that up because the NFL is a more valuable league that makes a lot more money. A huge issue with baseball is that there are natural differences in markets that will allow some teams to spend way way more than everyone else. You should not have to have a competitive payroll that goes above what NFL teams spend on 55 players. If the NFL did not have a hard cap then you would see similar differences in team payrolls and it would look like a number of teams can't support their franchises.
     
  10. raining threes

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    They should've expanded before Bud decided and Drayton was an accomplice in robbing Houston of 50 years of baseball tradition.
     
  11. Fyreball

    Fyreball Contributing Member

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    No to expansion, because with expansion of the league comes expansion of the playoffs. Right now, baseball has the best playoff system out of the Big 3 sports, and I don't want to be subjected to another NBA situation where the playoffs drag on forever, and the quality of the games goes down drastically.
     
  12. Brando2101

    Brando2101 Contributing Member

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    What do you mean?
     
  13. juicystream

    juicystream Contributing Member

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    No need for expansion right now. Don't see a market that I think MLB makes sense in.
     
  14. raining threes

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    If there had been expansion earlier, there wouldn't have been a need for the Stros to switch leagues and me having to stay up late/get up early just so Buds beloved Brewers could stay in the NL.
     
  15. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    You don't understand that two teams currently in bad situations shouldn't prevent MLB from expanding into good situations? It is basically same argument as your own.
     
  16. Snake Diggit

    Snake Diggit Member

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    That metaphor makes zero sense. And there's no reason whatsoever teams in bad cities (not sure why you're focusing solely on the stadium) can't move to these supposedly viable cities you think they should expand to. There's a reason Montreal, Vegas, Charlotte, etc haven't gotten teams yet.

    I see that you don't understand my logic. You're focusing too much on the stadiums, which is just one (minor) component of whether a city is a good fit for a MLB franchise. You could put the best stadium in the world in Lubbock, that doesn't make it a good candidate for expansion.

    Comparing NFL payrolls to MLB is silly. NFL payrolls are the result of really shitty collective bargaining by their players. Definitely not something MLB should try to emulate.

    Not sure which cities you think would be wildly successful, but again, if they are that great, one of the weak market poor owner teams should move there. But the overwhelming likelihood is whatever city you're thinking of would end up a drain on the league regardless of what stadium they build.
     
  17. Nick

    Nick Contributing Member

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    There are no good unused MLB markets out there. 81 games is a ton of games.

    I highly doubt expansion is desired right now.
     
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  18. what

    what Member

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    Memphis isn't getting a major league team. They already have the redbirds who are thriving. Plus, I don't really see where they could even put a stadium that size in Memphis. It would be a nightmare.
     
  19. SooneRockStro

    SooneRockStro Member

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    I was really pissed when they forced us to switch to the AL. I was deadset against the DH, etc. Now though, I can't imagine going back to the NL. AL baseball is better IMO without having to watch the pitcher hit. It really makes no sense to force pitchers to hit. They are not MLB level hitters, obviously. So it's like watching a random dude off the street step up to the plate for the most part, save for Bumgarner and a few others. To me it's unwatchable, and it's really asinine when a pitcher gets hurt running the bases. If the put the DH in the NL then baseball would be much better off. If we go back to the NL ever, then I would hope it would be the NL West so we can get the rivalries with the Dodgers and Giants going again.
     
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  20. Joe Joe

    Joe Joe Go Stros!
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    You don't think MLB owners want to be given 60-100 million each? That is a lot of incentive to make things work once BAMTech is sold.
     
    #20 Joe Joe, May 26, 2017
    Last edited: May 26, 2017

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