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When was the last time a team traded AWAY a key star...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by SuperMarioBro, Jan 9, 2008.

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  1. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    ... and actually became better anytime soon as a result?

    I am trying to think of one, but I honestly can't... Correct me if I'm wrong.

    Orlando: Traded McGrady, then sucked (getting better now with Dwight, who would have been there anyways)
    Toronto: Traded Carter, then sucked
    Lakers: Traded Shaq, then sucked
    Kings: Traded Webber, then sucked
    Suns: Traded Kidd, then sucked
    Sixers: Traded Iverson, will suck for the foreseeable future (moreso than before)
    Wolves: Traded Garnett, will suck for the foreseeable future

    The only one I can think of is Marbury (he used to be a star, if you remember)... but he was always overrated, and was always replaced by Jason Kidd or Steve Nash.

    All these teams had their hand forced, too, and most of them did it in the rebuilding stages... both of which describe situations the Rockets are not in. You DO NOT trade your best player in our situation. Trading McGrady for anybody we can realistically get would screw our chances of contending anytime in the near future. None of the teams I can recall since I've been watching basketball that won a championship have EVER traded away a star... they have only traded for them.

    Besides, how much more convincing do you guys need that McGrady is ACTUALLY INJURED? If your complaint is that he's injured too often, well this is the first non-back-related injury that has kept him out any significant time since he's been in Houston. And we haven't seen the back issues in a while, either (knock on wood), so this seems like a rare aberration. Hardly evidence that he's fragile... **** happens. Kobe has missed a comparable handful of games over the past four seasons for a myriad of injuries himself. I guess he's fragile, too? McGrady has even played in at least 70 games in two of his three seasons here.

    Thankfully, though, you clueless "fans" don't run the team, and I'm pretty sure management already knows all of this. But whatever, in a week, I'm sure there will be someone new to be scapegoated if we lose a game.
     
    #1 SuperMarioBro, Jan 9, 2008
  2. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Member

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    What about Rudy Gay? :D
     
    #2 kokopuffs, Jan 9, 2008
  3. Angkor Wat

    Angkor Wat Member

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    I agree 100% with the OP. The odds that we are better after trading T-Mac are not good. I too am glad that those "clueless fans" are here typing and not actually running the team. :D
     
    #3 Angkor Wat, Jan 9, 2008
  4. jc1988

    jc1988 Member

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    agreed...

    those who trade franchise players often end up in rebuilding phase = full tanking phase...
     
    #4 jc1988, Jan 9, 2008
  5. apocclass

    apocclass Member

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    trading mcgrady would be a HUGE mistake, but our fans are too stupid to realize that.

    you don't know what you've got until its gone.
     
    #5 apocclass, Jan 9, 2008
  6. what

    what Member

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    Your premise is all out of wack. First of all, when a team trades a star they aren't supposed to be instantly better. They do it to be better down the line. The dallas cowboys, for example. All they did was win multiple super bowls. The nets traded a perceived star in Eddie Griffin and got 3 soild if not great players out of it.

    You trade a star to try and speed up your youth movement, not to start winning right away. You are trying to get some quality players and add some depth and hopefully find a star, ie Emmett Smith.
     
    #6 what, Jan 9, 2008
  7. fuzzy88

    fuzzy88 Member

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    The title should be changed to " ... traded away a Super Star ...".

    In any case, absolutely agreed (I argued the same thing on another thread, but naturally it was lost in the shuffle of many arguments).

    Rockets are NOT rebuilding, so there is NO legitimate reason to trade away a Super Star, albeit a somewhat defective one.
     
    #7 fuzzy88, Jan 9, 2008
  8. badgerfan

    badgerfan Member

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    I find it kind of hard to believe that all of the reports in the media (Marc Stein on ESPN today being the latest one) are completely wrong. That means that at the very least Rockets management is having exploratory thoughts.
     
    #8 badgerfan, Jan 9, 2008
  9. el_locoteee

    el_locoteee Member

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    Bingo.
     
    #9 el_locoteee, Jan 9, 2008
  10. thelasik

    thelasik Contributing Member

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    Thanks for quoting the whole post.
     
    #10 thelasik, Jan 9, 2008
  11. oneonepyopyo

    oneonepyopyo Member

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    First, trading him is not a good idea if we could not get any equal value back. Of course, I dont expect that will happen.

    Not fragile compared with Kobe? em...

    Kobe:

    1996-97 18 LAL NBA 71
    1997-98 19 LAL NBA 79
    1998-99 20 LAL NBA 50
    1999-00 21 LAL NBA 66
    2000-01 22 LAL NBA 68
    2001-02 23 LAL NBA 80
    2002-03 24 LAL NBA 82
    2003-04 25 LAL NBA 65
    2004-05 26 LAL NBA 66
    2005-06 27 LAL NBA 80
    2006-07 28 LAL NBA 77
    11 Season Totals 784

    Tracy

    1997-98 18 TOR NBA 64
    1998-99 19 TOR NBA 49
    1999-00 20 TOR NBA 79
    2000-01 21 ORL NBA 77
    2002-03 23 ORL NBA 75
    2003-04 24 ORL NBA 67
    2004-05 25 HOU NBA 78
    2005-06 26 HOU NBA 47
    2006-07 27 HOU NBA 71
    10 Season Totals 683

    You may Think Again.
     
    #11 oneonepyopyo, Jan 9, 2008
  12. AzNaNsZ

    AzNaNsZ Member

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    Thank god for this post. Finally somebody is not a deadbeat "fan" who doesn't know anything and he's correct, most nba palyers are injury prone because its a SPORT which degrades the body alot and at least tmac hasn't done a grant hill or Chris webber have career threatning injuries
     
    #12 AzNaNsZ, Jan 9, 2008
  13. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    How many of those teams had another established star the caliber of Yao Ming to build around?

    To answer the question:
    The Bullets improved slightly after getting rid of Moses Malone, the Bucks stayed the same when they moved Abdul-Jabbar, the Bullets improved when Elvin Hayes left, when Hayes left the Rockets they got 1 game worse, both the Clippers and Cavs improved absent World B. Free. The Warriors lost only one more game when Rick Barry went to the ABA, and won a title the year after they got rid of Nate Thurmond.

    Generally you want to get more talent in a trade, but losing great players is not always followed by negative impact.
     
    #13 StupidMoniker, Jan 9, 2008
  14. el_locoteee

    el_locoteee Member

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    They can come with anything they are rumor, Teams can call any time to other teams asking for trade, not Houston the other way around.

    Most of the trade have come from Chicago where a team now sucks, a team overpaying for Big Ben and now trying to do something about it.

    You almost not here good teams like Spurs, Det, Dallas, Phx, Celtics etc in any T-Mac trade talks only bad teams and they GMs trying to win the lottery by dumping their bad contract/players to Any team and gain in return an All Star.

    One thing is for Houston to listen any trade talks and then say no.

    Leslie Alexander is all about money he will not trade a profitable player in T-Mac, less Yao for anybody other than another profitable player, And I think Steve was brought here for Leslie to get fans in seats and to buy merchandise, that was problably his call not Daryl Morey call to get him in a Rox uniform.
     
    #14 el_locoteee, Jan 9, 2008
  15. SuperMarioBro

    SuperMarioBro Member

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    Poor logic, and even poorer examples. First of all, yes, we ARE trying to be instantly better. We are a team built to win right now. We can not afford to trade a player that we know is great now for a risky future. By the time the "future" rolls around, Scola, Yao, Battier, and others may be heading over the NBA hill. Second of all -- Eddie Griffin? Seriously... Eddie freaking Griffin???!


    Re-thinking... Nope, same conclusion.

    A.) Those numbers are NOT all that different. I like how you conveniently ignore the fact that Kobe has played an entire extra season...

    B.) McGrady, unlike Kobe, has had one season where he was basically hurt all year with the same injury (when he played 45 games). This skews the results quite a bit. Kobe sits out plenty of games from time to time for all different reasons.

    Look at how many seasons these two players have played 70 or more games...


    Awesome. So best case scenario, we can stay about the same or only get a little worse.
     
    #15 SuperMarioBro, Jan 9, 2008
  16. deekay209

    deekay209 Member

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    I agree with the OP. You don't trade away your star for mediocre to nothing. I was pissed when we traded Webb for three lesser players.

    We're not in a rebuilding situation as the above teams mentioned. We can make minor trades to tweak the rotation a bit but not your best players. Let him come back and get into the offense. Make him fit. We're not going to beat the top teams with Yao and role players, especially in the playoffs. We can't expect Rafer to keep this hot streak up. Scola and Brooks could hit the rookie wall anytime. Bonzi is on and off. We NEED TMac to suceed.

    To answer the question though, one time a team traded away a key star and became good I can think of is when Mitch Richmond was traded to Washington for Webb. :D
     
    #16 deekay209, Jan 9, 2008
  17. vmac

    vmac Member

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    Good post. 71.3 vs 68.3 games played per season is close. I guess Kobe isn't that much durable than T-Mac after all.
     
    #17 vmac, Jan 9, 2008
  18. RocketsFan5354

    RocketsFan5354 Member

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    We shouldn't trade TMac. Sent him to the D-league first to rehab his game. And then call him back up. That should be a good plan.
     
    #18 RocketsFan5354, Jan 9, 2008
  19. jlwee

    jlwee Member

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    Orlando traded T-Mac and get Francis, Cat and Cato back. They actually did very well in the first half of that season. Then they collapsed. Even with T-mac, the Magic already sucked, so what do you expect?

    Toronto traded Carter and got who back? They sucked with Carter as well!

    Lakers Traded Shaq. They sucked basically of Kobe hogging the ball!

    Kings traded King and sucked. Well, Divac, Christie were getting older, Peja and Miller if I remembered correctly were having injury plagued year. Bibby was a one hit wonder!

    Suns traded kidd and get Marbury. Wherever Marbury went, the team sucked anyway!

    Sixers and Wolves basically were sucking with AI and Garnett, so what do you expect? :D

    I got your point! you are basically trying to say, trading t-mac away will basically harm the rockets! I agree, that's why I willing to stay put and give both Yao and t-mac another season!
     
    #19 jlwee, Jan 9, 2008
  20. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    We traded away V-Span, the T-Mac of Greece. We are not doing better. This is a classic precedent case :D

    So we cannot trade away T-Mac, who is V-Span back in the Rockets or we will get even worse (wait... the name doesn't compute right...)
     
    #20 TheBornLoser, Jan 9, 2008
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