Rudy just said today. It may take one month...half a season...or (after a calculating pause) 2 years, to get to where we want to be in our system." ...shot to the gut! ugh. I don't know if I will have that much patience. Everyone has some optimism, and everyone has some pessimism about the Rockets. I liked it when thecabbage said in his recent thread that he was giving up his pessimism of Mo, and ready to give him a positive look. Those are always great posts. Here I want to know when we each give up our Rocket's optimism about something. Like mine...Dream can still play. Here's a list of what I am optimistic about. 1. Mo has either an awesome turnaround, or can pass better than we thought. I'll be patient with either individually, but will have little patience if both are missing and give up after 15 home games. 2. Playing with Francis. We are better as a team at reading Francis and getting in the right position and catching his passes. I will always be happy to see Francis find the right pass. Seeing him hit the open man has its longterm optimism, more than offsetting getting pissed about the drops. But, I'm still bashing anyone for a drop, everytime, especially the big men. 3. Our defense. Last year I pretty much didn't care about defense of our depleted team. This year, I will have patience with Francis and Mobley more than other cc.netters, since there are ways to coach them some help from teammates, so as to let them worry about their own offensive speed and freshness. I will give Cato about 5 headfakes or 5 games of foul trouble before I start shopping him on trade day. I have no patience for a 7'0er who can jump but can't learn to keep his feet on the ground and "...wait for it". He is here for defense. He better start doing it, now. Walt,,, if he stays out of foul trouble and hits his shots, I will always be pleased with Walt. But, all bets are off if he misses hit shots. Shandon,,, what can you say. He'll do it. I would like to see him start taking a lead on demanding team defense. I'll give him 2 years on that. 4. Can Collier pass or pick well, shoot open jumpers, and rebound? I'll know where I stand pretty quickly. I wouldn't wait too long for promises. A year, why not? But, we will know sooner than then. 5. Is Langhi the man? Man! I saw all I needed to see already. I don't care what anyone says about the RM Review competition. You can't teach what I saw Langhi do. I don't expect to see him missing open shots much. What is there to be disappointed about? Well, can he be the man? I'll give up on that dream only after he fails as a starter. 6. Is Mobley inconsistent? Well, I'm a Mobley-apologist, and I don't think he's ever been inconsistent. That has to do with the success rate of the 2 shakes, for those who don't recall the threads last year. OK...proof is in the pudding. With a high success for 2 shakes or any derivative sets, I'll give Mobley until Jan 1st to be shooting over 43% to proclaim him unimproved offensively. 7. Rudy can coach a new system. As far as I'm concerned, I've already seen it. But, I will say I expect great things this year. If he does not get Francis into the lane with more ease, and doesn't get Mobley running alternatives to 2 Shakes, and doesn't use the high post; I will be disappointed. I'll give him all year to accomplish those three at a sustained rate. 8. Lastly, When do I give up on Dream? That will never happen. Since he owns our best 15-18'er for a big man,...well....I'm still dreaming. Why not. You won't have fun this year unless you do.<font color="dedfdf"> [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited October 10, 2000).]
heypartner, I'll use your outline for the season.... But, if it doesn't work, it's your fault! ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem. DREAMer's Rocket Page
heypee, if you really think about Rudy's statement, there's a chance that "where we want to be" means "contending for the NBA title". Is 2 years too long? 1. The Rookies: They're rookies. Everyone seems to expect the world from Langhi, calling him a star. I personally see a few years down the line the Rockets having a DEADLY bench with 2 15 PPG guys in Langhi and Mobley. That is of course with me holding out for us getting Terrence Morris in next year's draft. Collier seems like the quiet little guy that none of us expect much out of. Knowing Rocket's big men, and injuries, all of a sudden Cato and Hakeem are knocked out. So, it becomes Collier, or going small with Taylor and Thomas starting at 4/5. Collier's definitely a situational guy, and he seems to fit the Rocket big man mold. Time should tell quickly if Collier will be out of the league in 4 years with career averages of 2 and 1, or if he'll stick around as a nice backup. I'm still scratching my head about draft day. 9 times out of 10 (or maybe even a better ratio), Rudy and CD will know better than I would. I hope this isn't that 1 time. 2. Kenny Thomas I take pride in being a KT basher, especially now that we got Mo, all the more reason to wish KT farewell. He should be a decent backup, but I personally feel we need backup defensive/rebounding big men. Langhi and Mobley, as well as Moochie provide PLENTY of bench firepower, and Collier can shoot outside. Wouldn't we benefit a lot more, especially against teams with PFs that our starter, Mo, can't defend, with a tough nosed banger, like a Jerome Williams, or even a Magloire in Charlotte? The minute he starts dropping passes, or if his FG% is below 43% (for a freaking PF) in January, trade winds better start brewing. 3. Walt Williams Mr. Inconsistency himself. When Walt's on, I can tolerate him. His defense is very consistent-it ALWAYS is pathetic. I can't handle that AND bad shooting. Now we at least have Langhi who can keep Walt on the bench, and prevent half the Compaq Center from strangling Walt. I don't expect Walt to be with the team after his contract expires. Or if he is, it will be with VERY reduced pay. 4. Defense The key to the Rockets season. Good defense=playoff team. Bad defense=hoping our ping pong ball lands on Eddy Curry or Loren Woods. Cato says he's more patient. We'll see. Taylor says he can play D, he just wasn't trying. We'll see. Stevie says he worked on his D. We'll see. As far as I'm concerned, there's 11 defensive question marks, and Shandon Anderson. 5. Team Chemistry As far as locker room chemistry, this year looks to be great. Steve leads a great youthful atmosphere, and they have Dream if they need a veteran to look to. On court chemistry should still be developing. I'm hoping to hear "Mo Taylor, assisted by Steve Francis" several times a game. This will develop, and their friendships can't hurt it at all. 6. Hakeem Status report says everything's great. If his only contribution is a big man for Cato and Mo to look to, that is fine by me. He is incredibly hard to project, I'll attempt it: 9-7 with 1.5 bpg ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited October 10, 2000).]
Defense As one may have realise i was not down with the rockets level of defense last year, although i am not convinced by Rudy's love of playing 1on1 with minimal help i am willing to give it a go, my beef and this is the rockets achilles heal is the players intenity level on defense and the genral impression they weren't even trying to play D. So I was alittle worried by Rudy's comment being miles ahead of the D and the development of the defense is a long slow process. I just hope the players decide that defense is more important than offense and have some pride in stopping their oppostion, this particularly applies to Steve and Cat and also the front court who havve to take it upon themselves to won the keyway. If the players do decide to actually play D then great i will be pleased and can then concentrate on seeing if Rudy Defensive schemes actually work. Cat As the original Mobley apologist (some call me his mum) I have an extremely long fuse and will give him all the time in the world to develop, and all i want in return is some improvement, last year was better than his rookie year and this year will be better again. Cato The big X factor and i will be willing to backflip on him rather easily on him. If he plays hard and smart then great and i will love his game. But if that attitude from last year reappears, his butter fingers dropping all those passes that would have been dunks and continues to think attempting blocks is Defense come back then www.CUT_CATO.com will be started. WALT I keep confusing myself with my optimism for Walt (it is a little like Jerry's chess game in Seinfield between his brain and dick). The streak shooter and improving defender that I am makes me hold out hope for Walt. But the coach in me makes me think we can't carry such a one dimensional player even if he does occasionally get hot. Further complicating the issue is my atticapting love of Langhi game. The balls in your court Walt, try not to shoot yourself in the foot. Smeg PS Great post HP, I even had to stretch and warm up before posting. ------------------ www.NOPostCount.com
When will I start bashing? Let's see.... Defense For me, the big thing is team defense. In today's NBA, the rules are skewed so that the guards have all the freedom in the backcourt. Francis and Mobley et al., simply need to slow down the ball and force the opposition into their half court game. Team defense is easier to play in the half court set. I will lose optimism when I see teams scoring on easy layups from their half court offense. Cato has to step up here. Mo Taylor Everyone knows about Mo's offensive game. What I want to see is how that game blends in with the rest of our young core. The bashing begins if I see Mo backing it in and forcing up shots a la Barkley while everyone else is standing around on the perimeter. Offensive Rebounding This one is a huge key for me. During '94 and '95 we were dead last in offensive rebounding. Of course, that didn't matter too much since we had the greatest big man on the planet and an offensive system that was not condusive to offensive rebounding. But this is a different team, and although scoring points will not be a problem, I just love what a tough rebound and put back does to the psyche of the opposition. Optimism will fade quickly if we do not have the ability to get those second chance points. Hakeem Olajuwon What can I say? I rate him as one of the top three centers of all time. But his time is past. Never will I lose faith in the fact that he is one of the all around best human beings ever to play the game, but he is not part of the Rockets future, so his play in this season cannot affect the optimism I have for this team. Here's to a wonderful send-off for the Dream. ------------------ Save our children from the TAAS test: TAAS test report card TAAS test fact sheet [This message has been edited by Behad (edited October 10, 2000).]
oops...I had to correct my spelling error. I think Mobley "always has been consistent." I wrote "never has been consistent". Being a huge Mobley-apologist, I had to make that correction. Nike, in context, I think Rudy meant "where we want to be" as comfort with the system and consistent execution. That doesn't mean you have the players to contend. Just that they are playing as well as they can. I can imagine having 2 years patience for "playing the best you can as a team".
but with this team's potential, couldn't you see them, when playing as the "best they can be", as big time contenders? ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated.
I don't think Rudy meant "one month" or "six months" as being big time contenders. I do not think your intepretation was the context of his thinking. Stay in context NIKE. Particularly the context of this thread. This is about "lost expectations" and when you start bashing and why. I'm somewhat trying to do the opposite of thecabbage's thread here, with inspiration from him saying he has flipped from negative to positive on Mo. I think it will be interesting to see exactly when people will go from positive to negative (to the point of bashing) something. But you just can't resist talking about your predictions and Terrence Morris , and contending, and how you see us developing. No offense NIKE...but I like to explore new things every once in awhile.
Behad, FYI Bark had 4,215 assists. ------------------ David Stern calls me now and says, 'I apologize for all the things I said to you in the past. Dennis is a lot worse than you are.' -- Charles Barkley
If the Rockets are winning, something tells me that all the little problems that infuriated us last year wouldn't seem quite so pressing. We might NOTICE them, but wouldn't "bash" so much. But to address the post: 1. Francis is the Rocket's future. To become a full-fledged superstar, he has to learn how to play defense. He has to reduce the ammount that opposing PG's score. If he can do this, I'll be satisfied with even marginal increases in scoring and assists. I'll be upset if he's allowing more than 16pts per game to the opposing PG after the first two weeks. 2. Cato needs to do his best Theo Ratliff impression. If he can be 3/4's of the player Ratliff is... great D and a little O, I'll be ecstatic. I want this to develop by the all-star break on defense... I give him all year to develop the O. 3. I want Anderson to continue his offensive production that we saw in April. I know alot of people are satisfied with the Mobley of offense, Anderson for D combo... I'm not. I want Anderson to be averaging 15pts per game by the end of the first month. I won't start bashing at this point (Shandon kicks butt), but I'll be disappointed. 4. I want Mo to average 15 and 8. Once again, this is something that I think he *should* do, so I give him one month. 5. Mobley needs to be more consistent. I really can't reason out a time table for disappointment on this one... let's just say I'll groan everytime he jacks up a crappy shot. 6. Langhi needs to show promise. If he can demonstrate that he'll EVENTUALLY be an effective starter by the end of this year, I'll be satisfied. 7. Collier needs to show he isn't a complete flop. I'll give him 3 months for this. I don't want him to be great in this time, but merely to signal that he does have certain abilities. 8. I want Williams to shoot 45% from the field in the first month of play... 38% from the 3 pt line. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
FIRE RUDY !!!!!!!!!!!!! He couldnt coach worth a **** tonite! ------------------ Fun Police Says: 1. Stupid threads & Stupid BBS names are not FUN! 2. Spelling, grammar, punctuation and sentence structure are not FUN! 3. Conduct yourself in a FUN way! The Fun Police are Watching. Vote for the Rockets & Have FUN! REDSKINS SUCK!!!!!!!!
I'm not going to stick to your post's structure hp, but I'll stick to the theme. The greatest dissappointments come from the greatest hopes & expectations. The things I have the greatest hopes about, and will lead to the greatest dissapointment & bashing are.. Kelvin Cato That Cato will improve his offensive production and rebounding. I don't share the general view that Cato is overpaid - for an athletic 7 footer, he earns about market value. I am very comfortable in the knowledge that Cato is our starting centre after(or before) Hakeem retires. He plays great defense, but I will start turning sour if I see no improvment in rebounding and no attempt to develop an inside offensive game. Rudy also needs to be smart about playing him - you don't want to burn Cato's fouls hacking big western Conference centres in the first quarter - bring in the "meat" for that. Steve Francis Here it is all defense and attitude. My hopes are that Steve will come out and limit the opposing PGs offense. Last year during preseason he talked about "concentrating on defense" and it didn't work. I will start bashing when Nick the Quick drops 30+ on us. The leadership aspect is a given but I want to see how Steve's attitude in general develops. Last year he was on his best behaviour because he had to repair a tarnished image so I hope and expect it to continue. I will be disappointed if I see any extra curricular transgressions. Dropped passes & missed dunks If I see more than 1 per game I will come out swinging. No excuses here. Execution I will wait 10 games before I started complaining about poor execution. It took us a lot longer last year and again, there is no excuse. Mo No real expectations from Mo - anything we get will be a bonus. I think the real low post threat combined with the perimeter and penetration strengths will be exciting. Mobley's consistency and shot selection Not really expecting much here. Of course, I will start getting disillusioned if Mobleys shooting stats and shot selection get worse but with Cat, live by the sword..... Hakeem Quite simple really, my hopes are that a)he goes out with dignity b)I get to see his last game ------------------ Maybe all the rulers are wrong. Current Rocket's Salary & Contract Info
You heard the quote, not me. I'm just trying to see it in an optimistic light. If I have my way, Morris will be a Rocket. Can't we talk about future Rocket player expectations? Are you already bashing him? (PS-That mainly comes from my desire to kick Walt to the curb. I'll start bashing Walt the minute his FG% falls below 50%, or his 3P% below 40%. He better hit his first shot.) I'll go on a little bit, to Rudy. Rudy T I'll start bashing Rudy when his players, the ones that count (not the Thomas Hamiltons) start bashing him. If Rudy can keep Steve, Shandon, Cat, Cato, Mo, and Hakeem all happy, I'll be happy. Shandon I'll start bashing Shandon, when Shandon stops playing defense...or, never. I'll make an addition to Hakeem. As long as he plays comfortably, that's fine. But what I don't want to see, is him trying to be the 94-95 in the end of games, and instead of giving the big shot to Steve, Cat, or Mo, trying to force a game winning shot, and blowing it. (I'm not saying don't take the big shot, but don't force it.) I agree with davo on the dropped passes. KT and Cato dropped WAY too many last year, most of them padding Steve's turnover count. CD has said Mo has good hands, but it's not proven. (Note: hp, you may take interest in the fact CD said Mo is a very good passer.) ------------------ The Serious Police are watching. Follow the rules or be assimilated. Shandon is underrated. [This message has been edited by NIKEstrad (edited October 10, 2000).]
had to looks this up at the 1/2 way point. Looks like I should be bashing Cato and Walt, but everyone else is untouchable. Well done Rockets!! Now, get rid of Cato, please.
Memory may serve me wrong, and I'm too lazy to do much archive searching... but weren't you a Cato apologist for a while? What changed your mind? Did he finally just exhaust your patience? ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
I love Francis. I think that he is a tremendous player who will only get better. I think that Mo Taylor has shown tremendous improvement over the past month or so, but I don't think that he will be with the Rockets next year. I think that he will get more money to play elsewhere. I also like the way that Shandon plays, although I wish that he would get more shots. Outside of that, there is nothing that I like about the Rockets. And it all starts with coaching. As far as I can tell, the Rockets never pass the ball. They dribble, they drive, they put up stupid shots. But there is no team offense. I think that there is a coaching problem on the team. I think that Mobely is a ball hog of the worst type. Cato has been a tremendous disappointment. Hakeem is a big backstabber as far as I am concern and I would sit him on the bench and let him fester. Walt, Kenny and Carlos are all inconsistent, leading the Rockets to have one of the worst front-courts in the NBA. I love the Rockets, but they are unbearable to watch at times. This team has a lot of talent, but they will not make the playoffs this year. And personally, I don't think that Rudy deserves two more years.
tod, let me get this straight: we are .500 in the Western Conf and "have the worst frontline in the NBA", and you are blaming Rudy!?
