With all the griping? I mean, Im the biggest critic, and Rox hard ass out there. But can anyone one of you of figured that the Rox would be 8-7 considering. 1. No Cato for most of the season 2. Mo Taylor not fitting in at all, and doing next to nothing 3. Shandon Anderson being in the "doghouse" and biggest factor of all... 4. Collier going down to injury. ????? Come on people the Rox are 8-7 with two key players not being involved at all, and Cato out. Whats the problem for the most part? Now on the other hand, Im fearing that Rudy has to put up a new game plan. Almost no post up game, no running game, and Iso, Iso, Iso just isnt cutting it. It's the same old complaint just a different way of death. "Can the Rox put together a decent offensive game plan?" Second major problem Im seeing is that after this season, if things stay the same, Mo Taylor and Shandon Anderson are both going to bolt. Taylor isnt getting involved at all, and SA is either not being involved or Rudy is allowing SA to be shunned by his team mates. Either way, that would make 3 "MAJOR" free agent signings who all would essentially have the same grip with Rudy. Try convincing Webber to come to Houston after Mo, Shandon, and Pumppin all have the same grips. Aint going to happen. Its time to make winning a team effort. Its time to say defense is at a premium, and boneheaded one on one, and poor shot selection to be punished. NO team wins in the NBA playing a one on one game. Its time to scrap the play book and start all over Rudy. Overall though, Im still not too disappointed by the Rox play so far. ------------------ "I have amazing, powers of observation"...Pink [This message has been edited by Dreamshake (edited November 28, 2000).]
It could be worse. Alot worse. We're just pissed about the game. It is nice to be above .500, tho. That whole year of sub-.500 playing... Yeah, it could be alot worse. I'm still not sure it's all Rudy's fault. Steve and Shandon need to push themselves harder, and Mo ain't even gonna get another million at the rate he's going. Once you set a play for these guys, you either put Matt or Hakeem in to keep it honest, or you just hope they get by on ability alone... Cat is the ONLY one who's playing above the level right now. At least, we don't want to screw that up. (Moochie is also playing above expectations) ------------------ [This message has been edited by treeman (edited November 28, 2000).]
Dreamshake, Fans are frustrated that no attempt was made to rise to the occasion Tuesday night. Without Taylor raising his game and satisfied with being a jump shooting power forward, he is wasting his time and the Rockets in his "tryout season". Mango ------------------ Test Your NBA Trade Ideas 1. Put new topics in the proper forum. Things happening in the rest of the NBA 2. Use clear wording for new threads. 3. No duplicate threads 4. Conduct yourself as an adult. The Serious Police are watching. Donate Blood or be assimilated! [This message has been edited by Mango (edited November 29, 2000).]
Exactly. Not what I was thinking specifically, but exactly what I was thinking overall...Frustration. But Mo isn't the only one who's guilty. ------------------
I think Mo's fit in well here, and I definitely want him back. What concerns me is Rudy continually giving him 23 minutes a night like tonight. And for the record about Webber, I've never heard one person say Taylor isn't fitting in and I certainly don't think it. He's playing good basketball, and with the exception of last night and Saturday where he didn't get many opportunities, he's getting shots and taking advantage of them. Just if he isn't getting the minutes you can't expect great numbers. Webber will certainly get the minutes. Also, when you have a lot of isolation type players, you are young and improving, and you are over .500, I'd say that is most definitely not a time to change up the playbook. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Dreamshake- I think you can discount 3 of your points. 1. Cato wasn't hear last year. He collected a paycheck but he never really showed up. 2. We got what we payed for with Mo. He can be effective offensively when given the ball in the post, but is a defensive and rebounding liability. Yeah he hasn't been great offensively but with Francis & Mobley controlling the ball we knew the post up game wouldn't be a big factor. 3. Collier was a wasted pick. The only surprise is Shandon playing so poorly and Stevie nopt improving. Yeah it's nice to be 8-7 but I don't see it as a positive 8-7, I see it as getting by not improving. They key to our season is Stevie improving, Anderson getting back into the flow and Dream's health.
I only see one problem the offense. It sucks plain and simple. Why is Mo-T getting the ball on the wing and going one-on-one shooting jump shots? Why is Mo-T getting the ball at the wing and trying to get it in to Dream? Who in the hell is Stevie passing to? Shandon just stands in the corner and waits to run down to end and play defense, no **** he's mad!!! When Cuttino plays he shoots everything and has plays called for him. Last season the offense was fluid now the offense is stagnant. The best player on the team has been Walt and last season everyone wanted to trade him. Right now Houston is more than 5 yrs away from contention. Ohh and one more thing, this is probably not only the Dream's farewell tour in Houston its also Shandon Andersons'(bank on that). Cuttino will be starting by the end of this season, and its not b/c he's better. ------------------
The Rockets went 5-1 and come home and lose to the Pacific Division-leading Sacramento Kings who have a bonafide all-star in Chris Webber. They go on to play Denver on Thursday who is playing in Minnesota tonight, so they SHOULD win that game, although Denver is 6-2 at home, so this isn't a gimme. After that they play Portland at home, where they should be underdogs and Dallas who will be playing their 3rd game in 4 nights and their 4th game of their road trip. This will be a good test to see where we are compared to Dallas. It's a home game against a comparative quality team. I can see disappointment with the effort the Rockets put up against the Kings, but the outcome was really to be expected. They are better than us, it would seem. ------------------ "We end up with Francis/Mobley isolations very often. More often, I'd say, then other teams." -- jamcracker
4 Chuckie. 1. Either way, the Rox are 8-7 with an aging near 40 year old center, who can barely manage 20 mins a game, and no backup to boot. Id say not having Cato right now has affected their ability to play. 2. Mo isnt putting up nowhere near the numbers he's averaged or capable of putting up. So again Ill say, hes done next to nothing. He's not playing on O, Not rebounding for crap, not playing a lick of D. So what aspect of his game do you think is showing up??? 3. Collier was indeed a wasted pick. That point was pure sarcasm. Glad to see you picked up on it though. 8-7 projects out to a 42 win season. Now considering everything thats gone wrong with SA, Mo Taylor, Catos injury, and Francis not being near as dynamic a player as he can be. Things could be alot worse. The Rox barely managed a .500 record with 3 of the 50 greatest on the team, and an 8th seed (back when Hakeem was still the best center in the league) So are you arguing that if Mo rebounded, played better D, and was involved more in the O, that the Rox wouldnt be a better team? Or If Cato was around. Cause right now after Hakeem, Bullard is the Rox best option at Center. Cat...What Mo Taylor are you watching??? Every concievable stat is significantly down. Rebounds, assists, steals, blocks, FG percentage, Hes managing only 10 shots a game. As compared to almost 16 a game last year. How is a shot every 3 mins. finding his shot? Which translates into making a FG about every 8-9 minutes worth of work. You seem to think that this Rox team is a particularly young team. It really isnt. Hakeem, Bullard, Wizard, Anderson, Cato, and Carlos all have 4 plus years in them. And are all over the age of 30 except Anderson whos 27 and Cato whos 26. Not exactly a young team. The Rox were winning games with the dump it in system, didnt mean that it didnt need replaced. It was way antiquated, and teams killed it with doubles. Now all a team has to do is just sit back and watch as one player dictates the offense, or double team the iso. No one is hitting the outside shot to make the defense play honestly, and no one is getting to the hole on back door cuts, or UCLA cuts. ------------------ "I have amazing, powers of observation"...Pink
Are you insane? Have you even watched a game this year? Comments like those certainly lead me to believe you have not. If you could show me one guy in this rookie class not in the top 5 that has outplayed Collier please let me see it. You should be praising Rudy for getting Collier and a good 1st next year out of this draft, not criticizing him. Some of you need a reality check. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Cat. Did it ever rain on you skull that Collier is putting up his "mammouth" numbers because he was forced to play more than most other rookies???? Hakeem can only play about 20 mins a game. Bullard is NO center, and Los cant do it. By sheer force of hand did Collier neccesitate playing time. Lets review. If Collier is averaging 2.3 rebs a game. Per 48 that translates into 6.9 a game. Pretty pathetic actually for a 7 footer. Is it his whole 3 blocks this year thats impressive? You want some players picked after him whos performed better or equally. Heres a few. Tsakalidis 000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 6 0 6.0 6-9 .667 0-0 -- 1-2 .500 0.8 0.7 1.5 0.0 0 4 1 8 13 2.2 Doesnt score much but has only taken 9 shots. But considering how few less minutes he has, Id say hes played about at Colliers level. Q Richardson 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 14 0 13.4 36-86 .419 6-24 .250 15-25 .600 1.3 1.6 2.9 0.4 7 3 14 19 93 6.6 Id Say that Q has outplayed Collier so far. Pryzbilla 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 7 5 10.6 4-7 .571 0-0 -- 0-4 .000 1.1 1.3 2.4 0.0 0 8 4 17 8 1.1 Pryz. Has only taken 7 shots, but his rebounding and blocks are much better than Colliers. So a point could be made that hes played slightly better than Collier, just Collier has the opportunity to play more so far. Chris Porter (What happened to his stats???) Has played decently and considering his minutes Id say hes played on Colliers level Jerome Moiso 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 5 0 8.6 1-6 .167 0-0 -- 4-6 .667 1.2 1.8 3.0 0.2 1 3 9 12 6 1.2 Has only taken 6 shots, but is averaging more boards in about 2/3's the minutes. Id say hes been on about Colliers level. Jamal Magloire 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 15 0 14.7 31-60 .517 0-1 .000 36-51 .706 1.7 2.9 4.6 0.3 4 19 13 31 98 6.5 . Jamal has definately outplayed Collier so far. AJ Guyton 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 13 4 16.5 27-73 .370 7-21 .333 1-2 .500 0.2 0.7 0.9 1.6 0 2 9 15 62 4.8 Played just under Collier so far. Khalid El-Amin 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 13 7 20.8 33-97 .340 8-25 .320 14-18 .778 0.7 1.2 1.9 2.8 16 0 16 24 88 6.8 Outplayed Collier so far. Kenyon Dooling 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 15 1 15.9 25-59 .424 3-11 .273 25-43 .581 0.0 1.2 1.2 2.0 2 3 20 23 78 5.2 Has played up to if not slightly better than Collier. Mateen Cleaves 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 14 0 16.0 32-66 .485 0-2 .000 24-30 .800 0.5 1.2 1.7 3.1 12 0 27 34 88 6.3 Has outplayed Collier so far. Courtney Alexander 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 10 2 12.7 18-50 .360 1-4 .250 8-15 .533 0.5 1.2 1.7 0.5 5 1 5 21 45 4.5 Id say his numbers slightly better than Colliers, if not equally impressive. Hanno Mattola 2000-2001 S T A T I S T I C S REBOUNDS G GS MPG FGM-A FG% 3PM-A 3P% FTM-A FT% OFF DEF TOT APG STL BLK TO PF PTS PPG 13 3 14.4 23-46 .500 0-0 -- 18-23 .783 0.6 1.9 2.5 0.4 2 2 20 36 64 4.9 Played at about Colliers level. There you go. Dont go throwing out challenges before you at least do some minor fact checking. I know you love your home boy Collier and all, but dont put him above all others, when he hasnt deserved it so far. Nice try though. ------------------ "I have amazing, powers of observation"...Pink [This message has been edited by Dreamshake (edited November 29, 2000).]
The Cat, I don't see how you can rewrite history concerning Mo's minutes. The guy has had several games of foul trouble. And last night in the 4th quarter, KT was once again an outstanding defender on a stud PF. Webber could not get around him, and had to shoot jumpers. IMO, Kenny won playing time last night. He deserved all those 4th Q minutes he got. I like Mo, and his sweet jumper, and see many possibilities with his passing, but don't deny Kenny has huge upside as well. Once he gets out of this Steve Sax/Chuck Knoblaugh superstitious funk about lay-ups, he will be competing for that starting position. Fizer will never be better than Kenny. Never has; never will. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited November 29, 2000).]
I love venturing into these backseat-driving threads to see the latest. But, this is tired commentary DS. You are not watching the 1st and 3rd quarter. You are stuck in a rut concerning Shandon vs Mobley. Forget Mobley. You continue to not say anything about what the offense is doing in the 1st and 3rd quarters. Let me tell you something about the first 5 minutes last night. It was very obvious that Rudy intended to attack with Shandon. We ran 4 plays to Shandon out of the gate. Unfortunately, he looked nervous and uncomfortable about it, and failed 4 times (2 blocks, a woof, and a turnover). Whether we should go to that well a lot is not the issue. My point is: there is no denying that Rudy had a game plan to attack with Shandon in the 1st quarter, and not just low post ISO, but getting him some picks, and letting him pass. Hakeem was very involved early, too. But there was a lid on the rid...sigh. That was not one-on-one at all. Neither was that perfectly executed 2nd half against Indiana. You are stuck on this hatred for Mobley and old Rudy/Dream ball. You are going to miss this whole Rudy/Francis evolution that is happening right in front of you. piece by piece...patience. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited November 29, 2000).]
All the Rockets have to do is move the ball around, be patient on offense, and cut down on turnovers. They are holding teams to only 90 points a game, so defense is not the biggest problem. They just need to is get back to the way they were playing in April. They should listen to Calvin Murphy more, he seems like he would make a good offensive coach. ------------------ 2000-2001 Rockets Game Formulas: End of 1st quarter: "They're playing so well!" 2nd: "What a great game!" 3rd: "Theres no way they can lose now!" 4th: "What the ******* **** happened?!!" Revote! Revote! Revote!...... Rocket's Championship 2001!!
I wouldn't take any of them over Collier. None at least in my opinion has come close to outplaying him so far. Not a one. And don't even try to get onto his rebounding. The Rockets envision him as a Sam Perkins type threat from the outside who can play good defense, set solid picks, pass the ball, and do the fundamental type things. But back to the original point- if you play from the outside, how are you supposed to get rebounds? We also have guys like Carlos Rogers, and even KT who can play center. If Collier couldn't play well enough, he wouldn't play. Period. He earned his minutes. Don't give me stupid stuff like players playing in less minutes who would score more if they play more. Show me actual results- not hypothesis type things. For example, if you look at Chucky Atkins' numbers last year as a backup PG and give him Steve Francis type minutes, he would have had 17.3 points a game and 6.7 assists. About even with Francis' stats. Would you consider Atkins on Francis' level because of that? I'd hope not for your sake. Then by the same token, it means you can't transfer the numbers of guys who play less than Collier and say they are as good or better based on numbers per a certain set of time. And for the record- Collier was really averaging 5.9 points and 2.7 rebounds at last time I checked- his DNP vs. the Heat, which was listed in the box scores as a Coach's decision and not an injury, counted as a 0 for him in every category on his average when in actuality he was hurt. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Uh...on the defensive end.<font size="1"><font color="f7f7f7"> [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited November 29, 2000).]
Patience??? I'm sure Clipper, Grizzly and Nugget fans have been patient. Look where they are now. These are all teams that were supposed to grow over time, and they have made no progress. No, the philosophy should always be: WIN NOW! ------------------ 2000-2001 Rockets Game Formulas: End of 1st quarter: "They're playing so well!" 2nd: "What a great game!" 3rd: "Theres no way they can lose now!" 4th: "What the ******* **** happened?!!" Revote! Revote! Revote!...... Rocket's Championship 2001!!
I know, but any great rebounder gets a lot of offensive rebounds, and for Collier that isn't possible. On defense, he was the leading rebounder in the ACC, so it's obvious he has the ability. However, adjusting to the speed and size of players better than any you have ever seen might have something to do with it. Also, he plays at the same time KT does, and KT has been nice on the glass this year. ------------------ President of the Jason Collier fan club! Looking for next year's Jason Collier or Dan Langhi? Draftsource.net ClutchTown.com
Laimbeer grabbed 7.7 rpg on 22mpg as a Rookie. Next year as a starter he got 12 rpg, and strung together several double digits after that. he was slow, and an "outside player". The Cat: I do like Collier. His shot, passing, and clear knowledge of the game have impressed me. But, right now, I would never defend his rebounding like you. What is this obsession of defending weaknesses of your favorite players? I can't accept your logic about his rebounding. He seems to look to block out fine, but he doesn't go to the ball. Here's some logic back at you: Maybe all his life he only blocked out and his 7' frame did the rest. Well now, he has to block out AND go for the ball.
the rockets suck and it is time all you crackheads realized that. Trade the cat and we might get somewhere. he sux. ------------------
