I'm curious to see what people here think is the solution to what's going on in Iraq...considering no one in politics seems to have one...
Divide it up into smaller countries, if the people themselves don't want to be part of a made up country, then let them have their own. Just think of all the new globes we can sell showing the 3 new countries instead of Iraq. DD
We should balkanize it. Dividing it into 3 separate and distinct countries is out of the question. Whatever happens, the nation of Iraq should remain intact, at least in name only.
That works too, though I don't know why it should remain as one country? All of the Middle Eastern countries borders were established post WW1...so are not even 100 years old. DD
DD, in short, you don't want to encourage separatism around the world. Too long to discuss here. But if Iraq were literally split up into 3 countries, that would be the death knell to any argument from Bush-ites that his Iraq invasion was successful and the right thing to do. The debate would almost instantly change from "right or wrong" to "how big of a failure was it".
Are Shiite and Sunni areas in Iraq arranged such that Balkanization is possible? I think the best solution is to first force a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The U.S. has the power to do this. Once that is resolved, Muslim nations would be willing to push for resolution in Iraq. Let's face it, it's the Palestinian conflict that is the major irritant and the source of all this Islamic Extremism. Once that is gone, and resolved, it may be possible for Arab/Islamic gov't to real in extremism without being seen as pawns of Israel.
Unfortunately I seriously doubt a Palestinian solution will somehow sweep peace across Iraq and beyond the Middle East. I always found the Palesitian situation a convenient excuse for other Arab nations. They will still have their extremists and problems no matter what the Palestinians do.
But if you look at the root of Islamic extremism...it comes about from the creation of Israel. Before that....Islam wasn't considered violent at all. Making the lives of the Palestinian people palitable in my eyes the only hope for the U.S. to be seen as an honest broker in the region.
So the Jihad that the Ottoman empire called against France and England in the first world war doesn't count, right? DD
Well, I think those circumstances were different. Not sure if Jihad had the same meaning then as it does today. Also, that was a state act of a declaration of war...not a bunch of extremists gone wild.
LOL, that was not a jihad, not even close; you need to reinvestigate the historical circumstances of the WWI and the Ottoman "empire" at the time.
It was an attempt by the Ottoman empire to use religion as a uniting front, they were attempting to have a Muslim empire from the Middle East to India. (sound familiar?) However, the point is that Islam has a history of violence, and what is going on today is the same thing that has been going on in that region for a long time, only now, it is breaking out elsewhere. DD
There's just no way we can win in Iraq. All we can do is keep building up Iraq's forces and, at some point, leave them to fend for themselves. I don't think it is going to matter how big the Iraqi forces get, however. Their not going to be a force to be reckoned with. The terrorists will just continue to pick them off with car bombs and, eventually, they may just put down their weapons and give up. They wouldn't even defend their country against invasion. They ran away. We could put Saddam back in power. He would get it under control. Like Chavez said, George Bush is el diablo. Our government wants the world to work the way they want it to work. It's never the best solution for the world we're interested in. It's the best solution that suits our best interests. Everything else is secondary. We didn't figure out...even after Vietnam...that we cannot control the world through use of force. So, here we are again with another quagmire. We didn't learn a damn thing from Vietnam. The only thing we could take from Vietnam is not to repeat the same mistake and Bush did just that. At this point, I wouldn't even care if Saddam did have WMD. I still would not have invaded. Bush and his cronies had no idea the can of worms they were opening when they invaded. Their plan was a complete joke based on wishful thinking. Their even spinning the media like was spun during Vietnam now.
You have no idea what you are talking about. Turkey's entry into WWI had nothing to do with political Islam and everything to do with great power politics - none of which had to do with Ottoman expanisonism, LOL, it came about 300 years too late for that.
The world has a history of violence. If history has taught us anything it's that when you have a bunch of poor downtrodden people in mass, they are susceptible to extremism. Examples are Nazi Germany. Current application: The Middle East. No, solving Israel-Palestine won't be a magic cure - but it's the first step. Remove the torn that's being used to cover up the real problem. Then once that's gone, focus on the real problem - which is education and employment. Take Israel-Palestine away and guess what? THe gov't doesn't have a scape goat. The Mullahs don't have a scape goat.
Absolutely right, which is exactly what is going on today, politics. Turkey entered into WW1 because they were broke after a series of 3 devestating wars left them in shambles. The only one in Europe that actually courted them was the Kaiser in Germany, on the advice of one of his barons after initially blowing them off. The Kaiser even wore a fez and it was rumored he had converted to Islam.... But, then again, I have no idea what I am talking about..... What was your point again? DD PS. Germany gave Turkey $5 million to side with them in WW1, but you knew that right? Oh and as to expansion for the Turks, that is exactly what they wanted, at least according to history.
My point is that your insinuation of Turkey's entry into WWI as motivated by some sort of islamic jihad is incorrect, rather it was pure self preservation after getting caught up in other people's struggles. PS, you omitted the major reason why the Turks sided with the Germans & Austria Hungary: the fact that they would be invaded by them if they didn't. As for expansion being a part of it? Ha ha. it was the opposite: fear of contraction, which was proven correct, as the colonial powers started carving up Asia Minor once the war ended anyway.
This thread is useless because nothing will change until Bush is out of office. Even if we came up with the greatest ideas and solutions ever, it doesn't matter becaue Bush would still have to OK it and then implement it... and to trust these people to implement anything with any degree of competence is the height of folly. A Dem Congress might make some difference, but probably not. Repost this question in Novemeber of 2008.
