Hey everyone. Just a little info about me, I lived in Houston during their championship years and moved out to the San Francisco Bay Area a while back. I still watch and cheer for the Rockets every year but have really had my eyes opened to what Don Nelson has done for the Warriors this year. What can I say other than that it really hurts to watch Rocket ball too often. It's like watching a team that has loads of talent but somehow only gets by on that talent. It seems when the game is on the line, you get that sinking feeling in your gut like "oh no, here comes the disappointment again." This is where watching Warrior ball this year has really opened my eyes to something different - the way Don Nelson has coached the Warriors. (Yes, this thread is going to degenerate down to somewhat of a "JVG sucks" thread). Yes, JVG has some great attributes - I love his no-nonsense workaholic attitude and that he really pushes the team's defense to its limit; it's rare to get a hard-nosed guy like him in an increasingly pansy generation. However, his static thinking is really what is killing this team. He thinks he has identified the perfect systems with the best rotations for the Rockets and night-in and night-out, he expects his players to run this system to a T. This is where a coach of any sport is all wrong and will eventually run into disappointing failures. During press conferences, he's exclaiming one guy failed to run this, Yao and Mac need to show up every night... it's not them that are failing his system, it's his rigid system that is failing them. Basketball clearly is a dynamic game and needs flexibility in both strategy and design. The Warriors have played 19 games, and have had at least a dozen different starting lineups. At first he didn't start Biedrins (Foyle started), but he still looked to give him playing time. He gave Monta Ellis playing time. And he gave Barnes playing time. You guys saw last game, he started a total unknown, Roberson. The result? Every guy on the Warriors thinks that they can pull off a win for the team because of this confidence he's instilled in them. Nelson doesn't force the offense to be run through Davis and Richardson and force a system that needs them to be "on" every night. Monta Ellis, Pietrus, Barnes, Biedrins and Roberson have all carried the team many times - because they are given the confidence that that can become their role. No one has had set minutes. Nelson has run dozens of different schemes. He's gone with Ellis, Richardson, Pietrus, Murphy and Foyle vs. weak interior teams. Another night he went Davis, Roberson, Ellis, Pietrus and Biedrins vs. a slow perimeter team. He doesn't call time outs after 6 points in a row. Sometimes he lets his team keep losing and tells them "You guys need to figure out what's going wrong on the court and adapt." He's not just learning what these new guys are made of, he is actively experimenting on the court and measuring the results instead of just believing that something he wrote up in the locker room is the best solution. So you may point to the standings and say, "9-10 and 12-6, that's all you need to know." But then why is it every time I watch my old Rockets, it's like my heart is in the gutter and I don't feel like they'll ever get there? Yet I watch the Warriors and they change and adapt and develop - the key word is they give me hope. Play Novak, play Luther Head, play John Lucas III, let Shane take over on the offensive post and mid range, use your guards as weakside defenders and rebounders, get Chucky Hayes used to running the offense through him once in a while, anything. Flexible, variable, dynamic. Please.
i mean, i see what you're saying. But just because you shoot down the record argument without reason doesn't mean it doesn't work.. You advocate Nellie's style. Yet, he's not winning with it. You say that "any warrior thinks they can pull a game out". And yet, they can't pull many games out. You seem to advocate playing multiple starting lineups? When I can't think of a time when a rotation constantly in flux has worked out for a team--it doesn't let anyone develop chemistry together. On top of all that, Nellie had all kinds of talent in Dallas and never took them very far. Had some crazy offensive talent in GS the first round, never went anywhere.. I think practice, summer league, and preseason are the places to "experiment with guys" and "see what they're made of" or whatever you were saying. They're not going to suddenly morph in the regular season. Novak and JLIII are the same players they were. They have limitations, and JVG knows it...thus, he's playing them accordingly until he sees different in practice. They are your opinions, and that's fine...but I think they're way off.
Avery Johnson has none of those attributes. He took the Mavs further than Nelson. Van Gundy over emphasizes defense and Nelson over emphasizes offense. When you're talking playoffs, you get more mileage from the former. The Suns are alot of fun to watch also. But I can go to the YMCA and watch the same thing without having to pay for League Pass.
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1. Nellie does not have near the Talent JVG does . .this year 2. Nellie = Anti JVg. . . JVG = 90% Defense 10% offense. . Nellie = 90% Offense 10% defense If they both could get to say 70/30 . .they would be all good Rocket River
This board is so bipolar...after every win we are just one mid-season pick up away from a championship, while after every loss JVG is the worst coach in any sport anywhere...ever! Bottom line: if you make the plays then the better team wins...tonight our guys didn't make the shots. We'll come back to fight another day. I am very happy with a 12-6 record after 18 games.
It is because you suffer from Tom TOOLbert syndrome. You think defensive slugfests are boring and delight in high scoring run-and-gun games, even if you can't admit it to yourself. You find youself enjoying not only the Warriors, but the Suns and sometimes Denver as well. Thus, when you see the Rockets scoring in the low to mid 90s, you feel like they are struggling, and surely they don't stand a chance when other teams hover around .500 scoring 10 more points per game. No one ever convinced you that defense wins championships, just like was seen with the Bad Boy Pistons, Jordan Bulls, Dream led Rockets, Twin Tower Spurs, and Bad Boys part 2. You yearn for the basketball of the mid-80s when everyone scored over 100 per game. The fact is that the Rockets are #2 in scoring differential. There is only one team that has a better expected result going in to each game, and that is the Spurs who are also doing it with defense.
Current or recent Coaches with inflexible, set, offesnsive systems and rotations: Pat Riley Greg Popavich Phil Jackson (isn't quite as stringent on the D though) Avery Johnson Larry Brown Byron Scott Rick Carlisle Jerry Sloan JVG Pretty much all your finals coaches for the last 8 years or so. BTW, I'm not a big JVG fan, just not a big Don Nelson fan either.
If our 2 stars shoot 10 for 40, we should expect a sinking feeling at the end of the game. But this team is already very different than what it was earlier this season. Secondary offensive firepower is evolving and with it we were still in the game last night.
Several people have mentioned the back to back. I've brought it up before that JVG believes in mind over matter - meaning that what you think can overcome fatigue either during a game or because of a back to back. Well here it is on tape on our very own site on the front page - Jeff talking about wanting to do it being more important than possibly being fatigued because of a back to back. http://clutchfans.net/news/1377/despite_blowout_van_gundy_not_happy/ Then of course we have Jeff disobeying his directive from Les to be more positive and dumping on a few players. And he makes some good points - Vspan is certainly a work in progress but come on, some of his turnovers are from agressive passes that people seem unable to handle - both sides can learn over time to play with one another. Some of this is natural for a group of guys still learning to play with each other - and the TO's should come down as they did after Xmas in previous years. Then of course he goes after Hayes for not playing all out - ??? No-one can call him on that since it is so vague. So you dump on your man who is near the top of the league in +/-. WTF? Then he disses totally his 4Q scrubs who held their own with GS and did not allow the lead to disintegrate, and got some valuable court time experience. Then he plays his top 4 starters 37 to 41 minutes in a back to back. Hayes who he dissed the night before plays only 21. Jho the bricklayer with the line drive shot plays 25. Vspan plays a big 6. And Padge, Novak and Lucas play zero. Lucas the man with 7 pts in 6 min the night before gets zero minutes. In a game where we were not hitting the broad side of a barn with our shots. So JVG states again in the post Warriors video he does not believe in fatigue, he believes in mind over matter - the little train who said "I think I can". And then he goes out and lives it in a game we lose by a thin margin. Fresh legs baby! Fresh legs. But JVG is smarter than the rest of us. He never makes any mistakes. I will say it again - he is a smart guy with great strengths and some unbelievable weaknesses - myopic blind spots. He drives me nuts with his blind spots.
G.S. has to start different lineups b/c they are a young team trying to find itself. Plus, injuries of diogu and j-rish dont help also, starting lineups dont mean squat, thats just a superficial title.
StupidMoniker, don't put words into my mouth. I'm not saying the Warriors are a better team of offense over defense. I'm saying the way their coach is continuously finding new ways to use all of his team at least produces that feeling that their really evolving, young or not. I think most of the BBS'ers here can agree, that even with the Rockets winning games, they don't feel like a consistent championship team - isn't that what they should be striving for. Out of all those coaches listed, every single one is no where near as inflexible as JVG. For each one, I can give you examples of how they have integrated rookies into their game, or have experimented with more setups. I'm not feeling crappy only because our stars shot poorly Cohen. It's feeling crappy because once the stars do shoot poorly, the only way battier, alston, hayes and the bench can continue to play is as role players in a certain system because that's what they're instructed to only feel like they can do. What if an aging Tmac and a intrinsically softer Yao can never rise to that level day-in day-out needed to make JVG's system work? Do you keep pounding it away or do you adapt and bring other methods to carry the team.
We lost a tough game on the road by a small margin, and JVG needs to learn from the coach he just beat by 30 nights previous night. I am totally fine with our rotation. The only thing I want see more is JLIII get a little bit PT to see what he can do. Other than that, I am really fine. The team is developing chemistry and winning. Dont be too small minded.
