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What is yiour view on McCain (Republicans in particular)

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Desert Scar, Nov 9, 2006.

  1. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    I am curious, he is one of my senators, not that I will vote for him next time. (IMHO he or Powell might have been the two guys with the right public clout in no small part due to their military background to prevent the Iraq War or at least delay it while we got a better handle on things if they had gone all out public, and both should have known a lot better (not been so unrealistically optimistic like the neocons) and did nothing if not enabled it.

    However right now he would be a very difficult candidate to beat in a general election, if he could win the primary (he is popular with independents). I am not sure any Democrat could beat him in a general election, though if something ends up costing McCain it is his war positions. The other issue within his party is his immigration stance, which while I think he and Bush are on the right track for something sensible, they may alienate many in their own party (of which Bush now in legacy mode may not care, but McCain might).

    Personally I don't trust him and think he is a callous, tempermental, and calculating individual. I think his ego is a mile wide, and since before the Iraq War his only goal has been trying to get in positition for his presidential run and tried to be on his "best behavior" with party leaders (sold himself out at all costs).

    But I am curious of conservative/republicans view on him. I think the big business conservatives have issues with him as well as social conservatives. Or do you think they will back him not because they like him but because he is the best chance to keep the Executive republican.

    Like him or not McCain will be fascinating to watch--what is he going to do on the war and immigration, and how will his own party and the general public react to him.
     
  2. basso

    basso Member
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    this is my biggest issue with him as well. my first choice, by a mile, is Rudy G. Condi second. McCain and Romney somewhere after that. don't assume however that i'm voting for the republican no matter what. depends on who runs. i was cautiously impressed w/ obama, for instance, which is why i was so disappointed he played the race card in the ford/corker race. as it stands, he's still lonely. w/ a bit more daring, he might have had two buddies in the senate.
     
  3. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Right now, the only likely Republican candidate that I would say that absolutely would not vote for in 2008 is John McCain. I agree on the ego and his self-serving nature. But more than that, he has been a failure in everything he has tried to overtake. The worst of these was the McCain-Feingold bill. In trying to clean up election funding and make them more accessible, he succeeded in doing the opposite. Campaigns are bigger than they've ever been, and more funded by Special Interests than they have ever been.
     
  4. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    I've met him a couple of times, but not in the last 2-3 years... and he does appear to have become more calculating in that time frame. He's always been gracious in person and does quite well in a small public meeting. Still, he seemed to me to be a little different than your average career pol, but not in any way that I can easily describe and I'm not even sure if it's in a positive or negative way. He's just different... almost like he's constantly battling between good, likable, somewhat crazy McCain and evil, ruthless, power-player McCain... and unlike most pols, that conflict seems to surface in ways detectable... but I'm not really comfortable with that description. I can state definitively that he has an eye for the attractive female form.

    I suspect that he's looking at the election results with a bit of remorse. The Rove formula looks to be breaking down and he's spent the last 2 years positioning himself to run on that formula. If he had continued to perpetuate the Straight Talk Express myth and not shunned away from being the Republican anti-Bush, he'd be sitting very well right now. As it is, I think his time came and went.
     
  5. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    McCain is ok sometimes, but he can be so full of ****.

    Joe Biden should be the next president of the United States.
     
  6. TRAVLR

    TRAVLR Member

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    Anyone who thinks Joe Biden should be our next president is not a Republican and you asked for republicans to give their thoughts on McCain.

    I think there is just something off putting about him, in an almost Manchurian Candidate way. His last year or so whenever I see him on TV he looks as if he were in a trance, so completely mellow and calculating that it scares me.

    I cannot say I wouldn't vote for him, but he would not be my first choice....
     
  7. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Well I am interested in all opinions about him. Right, left, other.

    I think he is in some pickles on the war and immigration, despite me thinking he has shown good leadership and a pragmatic and human position on the latter.

    How about independents? Libertarian leaners or budget hawks out there with an opinion?

    Someone must like him, why else would he lead mock presidential match-ups?
     
  8. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    I like McCain because he makes die-hard Republicans uncomfortable.
     
  9. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Biden is a plagarist and shouldn't even be in the Senate.

    McCain is ok. I think holding his not going to war with Bush post the primaries against him is a little myopic. To be in a position to run again it wouldn't make sense to be bashing someone elected by the majority of your party for four years and then ask those same people to vote for you. He's got a temper and an ego but he also appears to be willing to compromise rather than see nothing done at all. I think he's ok and wouldn't mind at all if he was the Republican candidate. I hope the Manchurian Candidate comments were tongue in cheek.
     
  10. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    What I want in a president or any leader is someone who will make up their own mind and take clear positions, as opposed to following the party machine and reciting 30 year old positions by rote. I used to think McCain had this quality, but I'm not so sure anymore. By becoming a 'party guy' he may have lost the quality that makes him worthy.

    Rudy Giuliani seems to be a beter fit given the way he disagrees with the party on many fronts, but I'm not sure I like his temperment. He strikes me as more a manager than someone with vision.
     
  11. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    I have a perfect situation: Hilary (or even better, Dean) wins the Democratic nomination. By some twist of fate, Cheney wins the Republican nomination. The Libertarians convince Ron Paul or John Linder (no relation) to quit the Republican Party and run as a Libertarian. Who says a third party can't win?
     
  12. lalala902102001

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    McCain is a candidate who can win it all in 2008. That's the most important thing one needs to know about him.
     
  13. rimrocker

    rimrocker Member

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    I do.
     
  14. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    I don't want him to be the candidate unless it looks like the Republicans will win :D I like him less than I used to because he has been so politically expedient the last few years, which is the opposite of what his persona had been.

    But I do think he is in a catch with immigration and the war. Does he stand true to his ethical position on immigration and alienate the majority of his party? Or does he kind of stay on the fringes (be invisable). As for the war, he is a strong supporter. He would need for things to get a lot better in Iraq or he will take a lot of heat. If he can navigate these two issues, not sure he can, I wouldn't bet against him being President. I wouldn't be pleased, but we have had worse. I also wonder if his own party killed him in the primaries via dirty tricks would he go as an indy like Leiberman. I would not put it past him if he saw his opps in his own party were cut off.

    Ya'll mention Guiliani (sp?). But he has loads of dirty landry and is more moderate/liberal than some recent Democrat senate winners. He is going to excite the party base and Social Cons. ground forces even less than McCain. Not happening in the Repb party.
     
  15. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I do.



    Keep D&D Civil.
     
  16. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

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    Out of the potential likely choices, I much prefer that McCain is the Republican choice with a caveat for Guiliani. I'd rather be faced with a non lose-lose like Hillary vs McCain than a Dukakis vs Dole. As I pointed out earlier, it just would have made no sense for McCain to continuously bash Bush the last few years. He still has to be acceptable to the Republican base, who voted for Bush. Yes, we like the maverick streak, but to alienate the Republican base for the sake of being a maverick would result in him definitively NOT being a viable candidate in the next election.
     
  17. CometsWin

    CometsWin Breaker Breaker One Nine

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    I would have voted for the moderate McCain of 2000 but he's become extremely conservative since then. The flip flop on the religious right and the whole Falwell thing was sickening.
     
  18. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Atomic Playboy
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    Biden and McCain (good friends actually) are two of the most respected men in the Senate and the country. When you see them interact on one of the talking head shows you can see how repubs and dems can actually get along and have positive dialogue.
     
  19. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Biden, McCain, Guiliani ?

    Did someone put a stake in the right wing last Tuesday?

    They will be back from the grave I assure you. They will be spouting "Reagan" and "smaller government" and "less taxes"! They will probably keep their flag burning admendments, gay marrige proposals and abortion stances on the QT though. Dick Armey and Newt Gingrich are already on point on every outlet they can get face time on. They will be dumping on Bush like he was the opposition party.

    They may even try to take Reagan's embalmed body to Disney and have him animatized. It would be pretty much the same as his last two years in office.
     
    #19 Dubious, Nov 10, 2006
    Last edited: Nov 10, 2006
  20. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Well, if you can take steps to save soliders lives, and you of all persons should know about the true consequences of stepping in a messy foriegn land based on naive ideological premises, and your hesitation about the situation is correct, you might be impossible to beat down the line if you did something about it. But he did nothing and if anything jump right with the ship of the neocons on this one. This very well may have killed him politically (not to mention morally, but that is for him to figure out), we will see.

    So now McCain has showed he will go to any lengths to get elected. He has showed a pattern that gives me little faith he would do anything other than continue to pander to get re-elected.

    We will see. I think to be viable Iraq has to start looking better, McCain better be seen as being part of this better leadership.

    Immigration will be tricky too. I grant you if he stays visable and shows real leadership on a humane, pragmatic, and economically benifical plan even if most of his party disagrees with the plan he will win back points with me. If my suspician is right (that he has pretty much completely now sold out to political expediency now that he can sniff the presidency) he will stay much more invisable on it that he did last year.
     

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