What is wrong with people?!?!?!?

Although it is painfully true, it doesn't always happen. Numerous fellow atheists and I faithfully follow our religion and let everyone else do the same.

 

blah blah blah blah

Just because one group (or religion) goes around killing eachother, doesn't mean the rest of us do.

Thats like saying "all arabs are terrorist", so I'm anti-arabic.

Welp, im off with my AK to kill some Arabs .. errr terrorist in Counter-Strike.

 

Hi,
I'm not sure what connection you're making. There are many articles detailing the ridiculous hatred people have for each other based on many issues including but not limited to religious differences.
There are also many articles detailing the unrewarded kindness people show to each other based on many issues including but not exclusive to religious differences.
I'm not even sure there is any religion that believes that at this time it's the best that it's ever going to get. (Even humanists have faith in science.) Many look to the afterlife for that great time. Also, many accept the presence of evil as existing to define the presence of good.

So what about this particular scene of hatred pushed you over the edge?

Please don't take this as a flame. I am always trying to understand the extent of my beliefs (christian) and the level of my faith.
(side note: It's my understanding that agnostics "believe it when they see evidence of it". What would you expect to see to increase your belief that there is a God in control?)

 

While I find myself to be agnostic, mc mark your statement makes you a big peepeehead!!!

Any group can take any topic and force its existence or execution by heinous means. Just because the messenger is wrong doesn't make the message wrong. To say that "religion" is necessarily bad because of all the problems it has caused is not right. I think it would be better stated, "several people have wronged in the efforts to promote their religion".

Your statement would be akin to saying that there has always been corruption in politics and war is almost always a result of something political, so lets abolish politics...

Err... wait... maybe that's not such a bad idea.

 

I really don't know. I call it self-rightousness. Im pretty open on the whos right/wrong thing. Ive been taught that I'm not the judge, so I shouldn't cast judgement onto others.

Personally, I think religion has done quite a good job. You always hear about the bad things, but never the good things.

Religion is what keeps me moral. With out it, I could be a regular sicko out there. If there is no heaven, then what is the point of living? Whether I die rich or poor, happy or sad, or I take out a million people with a nuclear bomb.

Even if there isn't, I feel much safer that people believe in a afterlife if they are good than having no impact at all.

 

Even though I (as anyone who holds religious beliefs) believe my beliefs are the only one truth, I do not dare think I can stop someone else from believing what they want.

Religions aren't bad, people are....

 

MC Mark -

Your question should be, What good is violence?

I don't consider myself to be very religious. However, I respect all religions and the views that come with them. When an extremist commits an act of violence so as to express a religious belief he is doing nothing but publicly displaying his ignorance.

 

Mark,

In these instances, religion is the excuse -- not the cause -- for division. If it wasn't politics, it would be race, or nationality, or politics, or sports.

Humans are divisive by nature. Look at the history of civilization: once humans stopped being nomads, borders had to be created, someties real, sometimes imaginary. It is classic Sparta vs. Athens. Even now, within countries, there are borders, with citizens within every one claiming superiority. It seems we need "us" and "them" distinctions. It completes us. Conflict will always exist.

Religion has filled many needs over time. It continues to do so. If Space Ghost feels that religion "keeps him moral," then it is certainly positive for him...and he is not the only one.

On a side note, I have an issue with the use of the word "moral." It clumsy to say that someone has no morals, or that religion keeps you moral. "Moral" is simply defined as "of or relating to right and wrong" (there are multiple definitions, but this is the most general and basic). Everyone has a sense of morality, it is impossible to have "no morals." Just because right and wrong is different for some does not change that fact. Thank you, I am finished now.

 

Ah, maybe this is part of the confusion.
A person may think that all religions and all people suscribing to those religions should have the same morals. Why wouldn't they all, they all worship the same God, right? Morals should be logical. Even if someone made up a new religion, that person would put in the same morals as all the other religions advertise.

But we see that different religions have different morals, and not just in degrees of acceptance. What does that show? Different Gods or different peoples interpretations (or perversions) of God's suggestions? Does anyone really believe that a God could not effectively communicate His point across to us if He wanted to? That would be a limit and against the definition of God.

Now if a God did give us a code of conduct to follow, where could we find such an unadulterated version that has stood up to all tests thrown its way?

(Having one set of moral standards would be a good step toward world peace.)

 

You can't judge a whole group by its extremists.

 

It isn't the philosophy that is the problem, it is the attitude that accompanies it. So often, the empowerment of any ideology in an individual becomes corrupted. It is because people's minds get so clouded with their own thoughts and beliefs that they forget how to listen.

There is a saying: education is designed to replace and empty mind with an open one. The same SHOULD be said of spiritual ideology, better known as religion.

The fact is that fear drives most people to acts of violence. They are so afraid of what might happen, they will pay any price to defend what they have. Whether it is integration or races, genders, religions or other ideologies, the fear that the world might change to a place you don't like and that you might have to change to is terrifying for many and will lead them to do just about anything.

Frankly, I think it has much less to do with religion than it does with sociology and psychology. No one grows up learning how to kill people and yet people still kill each other. Something went wrong along the way. Religion isn't to blame. The person is. Religion is just one of the vehicles that helped them down that path. But, politics, racism, you name it, can have exactly the same effect.

 

I personally think religion is stupid. I always thought of myself as Christian, even though I wasn't raised in any kind of religious atmosphere. I stopped considering myself to be Christian when I actually was exposed to some.

The conflict in Israel is stupid. They'll never stop killing each other. All out war is inevitable, I'm afraid. I know that that is incredibly pessimisstic, but sadly, that seems to be just inevitable.

The conflict in Ireland is even more stupid. The Protestants are doing nothing but training another generation to fear and hate them. If they really wanted to make changes (and piss off their Catholic fellow countrymen), why don't they let the children walk through their neighborhood and expose the children to what it means to be a Protestant? Damn people, seize the moment for your cause!!! Set up booths on the streets in the mornings where the children walk to school promoting your denomination and your ways. Show them that you are not 'evil, Catholic-killing Protestants!!!'

The Protestants in Ireland are passing up a huge opportunity. They could be persuading impressionable Catholic children to their own ways; or at least showing them that they aren't as bad as the Catholics make them out to be. But hell no. That's too damn easy. Instead, they terrify kids and create further hostilities, all the while teaching another generation to hate and fear them.

[[[I'm not supporting Catholics here. I would have written the same thing if the situation was flip-flopped, and Protestant children getting terrified by Catholics while walking through a Catholic neighborhood on their way to Protestant school.]]]

 

I guess this is kind of part of the problem I have with fully accepting organized religion. I just can't see the logic in picking one set of guidelines over another, when it becomes a matter of where you live almost more than anything else. Why should I believe that some kid across the world has the wrong religion and I have the right one?

To me, organized religion has the smears of the touch of humanity all over it. I know that sounds bad. But while I believe in God, and a kind of spirituality, I <b>don't</b> believe that guidelines passed down through generations of people are a <i>direct</i> connection to it. Too many people, with too many of their own objections/interpretations.

And you don't have to have religion to be moral. I believe I'm moral (sometimes I believe I respect other people more than a lot of folks in the world. ) and don't follow an organized religion necessarily. I believe it's just a matter of knowing in your heart what is right and what is not.

 

Well, I decided that I'm going to throw in my 2 cents here. I am a Christian, but I understand why so many people are turned off by religion and Christianity in general. A little bit of background on me: I was born and raised in a Methodist church. While growing up, I had no clue about what it meant to have a spiritual life. As a result, when I was in high school, I might have gone to church once a month or once every 2 months. However, there was a man who was the youth minister who found out that I hadn't joined their church and been saved (I was baptised as an infant). He really pushed and encouraged me to come to church regularly. I could tell that his concern was genuine and I started coming more often and I joined the church when I was about 17. Yet, I was still immature in the spiritual sense. It has taken me about 9 more years to fully understand what it means to have a spiritual life. This is coming from someone that had been going to church when they were little to someone who was going all the time. So, I can imagine why people quit going to church.

About 2 years ago, I had become disenchanted with my minister at the Methodist church. This guy was very sound theologically, but he was a very negative person. For one thing, he felt that he didn't have to visit members when they were in the hospital. He ran off a lot of members including me and my mother. My godfather knew I was unhappy and invited me to come to his church, an Episcopal church. I had heard a lot of bad and weird things about the Episcopal church, so I didn't know what to think. However, to me the Episcopal church is exactly the way I envision church--the atmosphere, the tradition, the services, etc.

Now, don't get the wrong impression--I'm not a holy roller, by no means. I have a bad habit of cussing and of my 300+ CD collection, I have maybe 4 Contemporary Christian CDs which I never listen to. Yes, I listen to some things that would offend my Christian friends like NIN, Tool, Smashing Pumpkins, Black Sabbath, and they may even be offended by my techno/electronica stuff. This one girl that I dated that was Nazarene told me that when she was growing up, her mother had one of her brothers take a hammer and destroy all her tapes! Folks, it's people like this that cause the curious, prospective church goer to be running for their lives and never to come back! We have communion every Sunday and we use real wine. I have friends that feel that if you take one drink of an alcoholic beverage then you're going to go straight to hell. I, personally believe that as long as you don't let alcohol control your life then there is nothing wrong with having a drink (I very rarely drink simply because I don't like the taste).

To make a long post short: people don't like to be pushed into going to church. People don't like being around other people that are self-righteous and think that they are too holy for others. I, personally believe that everyone has to have some kind of spiritual life to be complete. Whether that's being a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Hindu, etc. then it doesn't matter where we going when we die. You may not like religion, but all organized religions teach its members to be good people and to reach out to your fellow man. As long as there are people striving to be the best person that they could be, then it shouldn't matter what religion they belong to or if they don't belong. Unfortunately, so many other factors are involved, that sometimes some individuals are never given the chance to be the best person that they can be.

 

If people didn't fight over religion, they'd find something else to fight over . . .

Religion isn't the problem, fighting is.

Peace