1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

What is Gay??

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by BucMan55, Jun 18, 2009.

  1. logicx

    logicx Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    15
    Indeed, good point. I think that goes back to the whole "love" and "emotion" thing, but great point.
     
  2. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,853
    Likes Received:
    41,791
    Without being able to fully communicate with other animals how do you know that animals don't have love?

    Many animals display actions towards each other and even other animals that look a lot like what we would call human emotions including very complex ones such as grief for a dead member of their heard and charity.

    Also like it or not we are animals and have been affected by things like environment and natural selective processes as much as other animals. You can't say you are going to use natural selection to support your argument and then say that there isn't much to learn from animals.
     
  3. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,853
    Likes Received:
    41,791
    Many mammal and bird species engage in sex outside of breeding. It seems like in most of animals that we consider the most intelligent, apes, dolphins, parrots, seem to have sex quite a bit.

    Anyway a point like this further undercuts any natural argument against homosexuality since it completely goes against the idea that sex is primarily for procreation. Sex is for many things with procreation being one of those.
     
  4. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Messages:
    6,027
    Likes Received:
    439
     
  5. logicx

    logicx Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2009
    Messages:
    760
    Likes Received:
    15
    I knew this was coming...animals and love. I can't argue with you. I have no proof. I can't speak to my dog about love, but I can tell you that before he got fixed back in the day, he did have an encounter with a female dog and there was a good 3 seconds of conversation before he tried to make his move, and by "his move", I don't mean a kiss or hug.

    You simple can't compare love, emotion, and sexuality of humans to any other animal. Maybe apes or something if you want to try since they're considered a more direct relative of us.

    The natural selection thing was more intended as a joke, but I do think there is much that can be learned from animals. Love, emotion, sex? No. Procreation habits? Maybe.
     
  6. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,853
    Likes Received:
    41,791
    By "fluidity" I don't mean social acceptance but what gender they are sexually attracted to. Women seem to be more often be attracted to both men and women while men seemed more fixed in regard to their attraction.
     
  7. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2007
    Messages:
    53,853
    Likes Received:
    41,791
    Many animals show a range of complex behaviors that can't be fully attributed to instinct or basic actions to survival. For all we know if you could talk to your dog then you might find that your dog has emotions that are comparable to your own.

    At the sametime genetic and development research has shown that many human behaviors are biologically driven and we might not be that different from other animals in terms of what drives us.
     
  8. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    18,316
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    Fact: There are human beings who are attracted emotionally and sexually to their own gender.

    Why would the discussion have to extend beyond that for their lives to be as equally valid as any one else's. They are not infringing on anyone else's rights so why should they be discriminated against by the public policy of a free people?

    Someone tell me why they shouldn't be afforded the same rights and privileges of heterosexual people, because the concept just baffles me. You know, I don't want to think about butt sex and I have to look away at male same sex gestures of affection ( I don't hug other men) but that doesn't mean it's wrong for the people that are fulfilled by that. Why can't Americans just take care of their own obese, hypocritical, divorce filled, Walmart lives and leave other lifestyles the *** alone?

    I know the last thing I want is some magic ancient text quoting bonehead telling me how to live.

    [​IMG]
     
    #48 Dubious, Jun 19, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2009
    5 people like this.
  9. Drexlerfan22

    Drexlerfan22 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2002
    Messages:
    6,347
    Likes Received:
    494
    Rep points coming your way. :D
     
  10. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    15,909
    Likes Received:
    1,587
    Its a 2 part opinion for me. Protection toward traditional family upbringing. And the social aspect of gay "vs" straight (in a very NON-serious way). My method toward the gay marriage:
    "If you get your marriage rights, will you go about your business as you normally do and leave the rest of us all the hell alone? Yeah you would? Okay, happy hitching".

    I dont speak against the lifestyle choice so much. Its against the the over-political correctness and over-diversifying that always seems to go with these things...the annoying shove it down everyone's throat lets hold hands jive. Months ago there was a gay & lesbian pride festival by a jogging spot me and a friend usually go to. I told him that doesnt affect me at all (Hell they were having a LOT more fun than my bitter ass was having). I just dont want to go to work or school one day and there's some whole diversity workshop on gay appreciation and how best to interact, and all that sh**. Gay history month and the hardships they've faced throughout the centuries and stuff...

    I dont think majority rule is always THE way, either. Obvious example of everyone used to believe the world was flat... I just think of all the issues, questions and grey areas out there, the core of FAMILY (which I think should start with mother/father) is too not up for debate really...to have same sex couples or ANYTHING affect it in ANY way. There might be discrimination sure, but in the good neighborhood/bad neighborhood kind of way.
     
  11. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2001
    Messages:
    18,316
    Likes Received:
    5,088
    I discriminate against fat people in my head but I keep it to myself, because I'm polite godammit.
     
  12. London'sBurning

    London'sBurning Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2002
    Messages:
    7,205
    Likes Received:
    4,810
    To the OP, it's pretty common for a person to experiment starting as early as pre-adolescence. It doesn't prove whether someone is gay though.

    I think someone that's really gay probably wants something more than just sex. Probably fantasizes a relationship. Probably envisions a future with another gay person by their side. Probably feels a connection with someone of the same sex more than someone of the opposite.
     
  13. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 16, 2003
    Messages:
    15,909
    Likes Received:
    1,587
    Yeah admittedly that was an extreme example :eek: A bum outside the job system wont get denied work, but a gay outside the marriage system can get denied marriage and family.
    Yes, I kinda do..I'll admit discrimination. According to most people's perceptions, the world's already accepted gay women more than gay men. Its how it is and I dont HAVE to put thought into it to agree or disagree. But to theorize from that and make my own conclusions...

    I think women by nature are just more nurturing. We dont need much proof to know mothers generally are primary caretakers of children, and percentages are higher of men being the co-pilot. My priority order of family is man/woman>>gay women couple>>gay men. As along as there's some kind of mothering in there. It'd appear women bond together with other women friends quite well in their roles in raising children (see: any day care). Very disproportionate the historical record out there suggesting men bond together with other men and do the same.. Not cuz men CANT, but why not tilt preference toward the proven hands? So slanted preference might be regarded as discrimination. But I'd take the heat....

    The lesbian thing, I think the nurturing aspect of women along with their softer, more emotionally sensitive and more physically weaker aspects, it can "spread" across to comfort ALL genders. (Women do the birthing thing on top of that. Future ladies and gents come out from that...) Plus since women are predominately seen as weaker and more "disadvantaged", they can have better standing coupling with each other and doubling-up the femmy power. And still not be seen as a major threat for whatever reason... :eek: Why its held against men...? Not sure...
     
  14. LScolaDominates

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,834
    Likes Received:
    81
    Shroopy-

    Just curious: do you know any gay (male) couples that have children?
     
  15. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2000
    Messages:
    6,053
    Likes Received:
    5
    This is all very confusing.
     
  16. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist
    Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2008
    Messages:
    18,248
    Likes Received:
    18,184
    Caring for yourself only is the downfall of society. You have to help those around you and they have to help you.

    Also, I have never in my life seen a phrase more hypocritical than your last. Telling people to respect others' choices and then verbally attacking the choice of others ("ancient text quoting bonehead telling me how to live").

    Respect homosexuals and say F you to someone else's religion. Brilliant. What disturbs me is that someone is giving you rep points for your hypocrisy.
     
  17. Landlord Landry

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2008
    Messages:
    6,857
    Likes Received:
    295
    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/G7oGx2dImE8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/G7oGx2dImE8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  18. LScolaDominates

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,834
    Likes Received:
    81
    I guess you could say the same thing to African-American slaves trying to escape from the plantation. They should have just sucked it up and stayed to keep the southern economy humming along. In other words, why should somebody care about preserving a society from which they are actively excluded and margainalized?

    Sorry, but when you use your religion as a pretext for hate, you don't get to play the victim when someone calls you out on it.
     
  19. BucMan55

    BucMan55 Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2005
    Messages:
    4,736
    Likes Received:
    62

    I may have missed it but did he say anything about hating homosexuals based on his religion.

    And the quote was not about the religion, he was calling out the person saying it "Ancient text quoting bonehead." Was the quoted person calling homosexuals idiots or anything? I think he was talking about the lifestyle. Ya know, not a personal attack.


    I wonder if you had some kind of religious zealot steal your girlfriend in high school or take your lunch money in elementary school. Your hatred of religion, especially New Testament Christianity seems to be over the top and personal.
     
  20. LScolaDominates

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    1,834
    Likes Received:
    81
    When somebody tells you that you can't marry the person you love because s/he happens to be a member of the same sex, how is that not personal?

    I'm not sure what you're talking about. If you're bothered by something I wrote, you'd do better to respond to it than to bottle up your feelings and throw a childish fit later.
     

Share This Page

  • About ClutchFans

    Since 1996, ClutchFans has been loud and proud covering the Houston Rockets, helping set an industry standard for team fan sites. The forums have been a home for Houston sports fans as well as basketball fanatics around the globe.

  • Support ClutchFans!

    If you find that ClutchFans is a valuable resource for you, please consider becoming a Supporting Member. Supporting Members can upload photos and attachments directly to their posts, customize their user title and more. Gold Supporters see zero ads!


    Upgrade Now