This has been on my mind for a few weeks now, but wanted to throw some stuff out there for discussion. None of this is scientific. Its all from my own observations. Any potential conclusions I state are only drawn from those observations and are only opinion. I don't propose to speak for anyone other than myself. Anyhoo, here we go. What defines gay. Is it simply being attracted to members of the same sex?? Does being gay preclude you from being attracted to members of the opposite sex?? Is the gay lifestyle really a lifestyle?? Are you born with it?? Does it develop over the first few years of your life based on emotional triggers and experiences?? Do you just wake up one day and say "hey, I wanna be gay today?" I have personally worked with 6 self professed gay people over the last few years at my job. Five female, one male. Of those 6, 3 had several previous(and in two instances after they let it be known that they are gay) relationships with members of the opposite sex. Those 3 were all females. Were those 3 that had relationships with the opposite sex any less gay than the 3 who didn't?? Are women more prone to being gay than men?? Does the fact that mainstream regular p*rn sometimes features two women effect the perception of women being gay as opposed to men?? After all, you wont see two men getting it on in a p*rn flick unless you specifially get a title that is all about gay men. All that said, could the reason that conservatives in general oppose gay marriage be that there are at least some folks who choose to go with the gay lifestyle, and further acceptance of that will hinder what these families are trying to teach their children. "But mommy, Miss Jane married Miss Lisa, why can't I marry Tammy when I grow up??" I think it comes down to parents not wanting their child to "choose" the gay lifestyle. I believe some do choose it, be it their own badge of honor or sense of belonging to something. Maybe just to spite their parents. I also believe that a (large?) majority are not just doing it to be cool or because a girl is a bit better at it than a guy or vice versa. I think it's truly wired in their brains. The more accepted it becomes I think the more it attracts those who I guess you could say don't really belong. Do true gay folks get upset at people who just say they are gay because they are wanting a little bit better sex than the opposite sex can offer??? It's a lot to think about and discuss. If it is too inappropriate even for the D&D then my feelings won't be hurt if its locked up. I am not trying to push anything, other than to offer a potential reason that SOME conservatives are against gays being allowed to marry. It may be totally incorrect but I think it comes closest to why I am against it.
Other then your brief thesis based on extensive p*rn research, I'm not sure what the hell you just said????
So you wanna jump out yo trick bag, Ease on into a gay bag. But you ain't just exactly sure what's gay. So you start to let your hair grow. Spent big bucks on your wardrobe. But somehow you know there's much more to the trip. What is gay? Tell me tell me, if you think ya know. What is gay? And if you're really gay, the passing years will show, You into a gay trip, maybe gayer than gay. But what is gay?
The smallest part of the "thesis" yet you say extensive research. Good stuff man! Was just hoping for some simple discussion. Ya know, throw opinions out there to see if there is any thoughts on them. But yeah, I did have quite a lot swirling around in my head and tried to put them down in some sort of orderly fashion. There is a reason I am not an english teacher.
There is a ton of research and ongoing research into why people are gay and what it means to be gay. Most of the latest findings seem to say that human sexual preference isn't gay or straight but there is a range. For whatever reason women are more fluid about their sexuality than men. There also seems to be very strong indicators that homosexuality is biological in nature with possible causes both genetic and developmental. There still is evidence that conscious choice is a factor but it seems that men are less able to choose their gender preference than women are.
Just to add from what I've seen from self-identified gay and bisexual people. I've met men who are self-identified gay who have dated and even been married to women but in almost every case they've said that they did so because of social pressures. I've dated three women who have told me they had sex with women. One said she was bisexual and was attracted to men and women about equally. The other said she was confused about her sexuality and the third said she thought she might've been a lesbian but once she actually dated a woman realized she wasn't sexually attracted to woman. In her case it might've been a different social pressure since she had been around a lot of lesbians. From my own limited knowledge it definately seems like there is more choice when it comes to women about sexual attraction where as us guys are hardwired to. The one exception that I've seen is at a diversity forum in college a guy who said he was gay didn't realize he was until he was 26. He had been a virgin up until then and had a bunch of sex dreams about having sex with women but in those dreams he could never see their faces. By the time he had his first sexual experience he was with a women and while having sex he looked at her face and just saw a blank space and he decided then that he was gay.
I was unaware of that, though it does fall in line with my experiences as well RJ. This is what i was hoping to see when I made the topic. That social pressure being around lesbians in your example is I believe a large part of the anti-gay marriage sentiment. I could be wrong, since any attempts at scientific evidence gathering will be tainted by the fact that scientific evidence is being garnered.(I think folks aren't totally truthful when being asked questions when they think some kind of data gathering is being done).
Now that's ****ing weird. As for "being gay", I'm pretty certain that there isn't some genetic on/off switch for homosexuality. This is obvious from the diverse experiences of those who self-identify as gay. On the other hand, I'm equally certain that genetics plays at least some role in homosexual behavior. There is already plenty of scientific evidence for that conclusion. None of this goes to the moral question, to which BucMan says he's "against it". It does beg the question though, what exactly are you against, BucMan?
I'm waiting for "This thread is useless without pics." and "Its summer people supposed to get horny!" posts.
Yes, more than likely. I think thats the correct way to go. That shouldnt be a conservative or liberal theme. Family is part of the core essential of existence. And I dont even have a wife or kid to be able to recognize that...99% of humans born are of 2 distinct genders. 95% are straight. The evidence is obviously overwhelmingly in favor of spitting out a distinct male and female gender procreating with each other. When a man-woman couple decides to have children, i'd bet 999 times out of a 1000 they'd prefer a boy or girl that just so happens to be straight. Who says "I WANT a gay child"? I dont think its that out of hand to say gay acceptance can meander into questioning of STRAIGHT. If thats ever the case, thats very selfish of gay people to think any or everyone else can ULTIMATELY do what they do. A homeless person living on the street might have been pre-dispositioned to make their lifestyle choice of begging and not seeking work. I know a law abiding gay person is more productive than a rotten street bum. But I think how a bum shouldnt be telling the working class how to conduct their affairs, gays shouldn't have overwhelming influence on how families operate. Input, but not overwhelming. Just my opinion... And remember, gay means gay MEN. Gay or bisexual women dont hardly count. Just, because....
Yet that was pretty weird. I never saw that guy again and didn't get a chance to do any followup questions with him. My own guess was that he had gotten so worked up about sex that he had developed a mental disfunction about sex in general. So while he was straight his first sexual experience, which was a with a woman, freaked him out so much that he figured he couldn't have sex with women. I don't think this guy's experience is typical in anyway. For the record I have nothing against Gay marriage and whether homosexuality is a choice or not I think people should marry who they want. I don't fear that a society that is more tolerant of homosexuality will lead to more gay people. Even if it does I'm not bothered by that.
I am against the government telling my kids its OK to have homosexual activity when I am telling them that it is not OK. I guess its just one of the things I stand for. Bible says sex outside of marriage is a sin. Bible says Marriage is man and woman. Therefore, sex betwen man and man or woman and woman will always be a sin, whereas only hetero couples who aren't married are commiting sins. Just for clarification, there is no difference between gay sex sin and hetero sex sin in my opinion, and from what I gather in the bible. The difference is that a "married" gay couple is outwardly engaging in said sin through the very act of being married and all that implies. This could also be a reason those who cite religious reasons are against gay marriage. Some might go so far as to imply gay marriage is a "flaunting" though I personally would give that a very rare instance and said flaunting couple were probably driven there by some over zealous idiots persecuting them. And I appreciate the discussion guys.
are you against the government allowing divorce? what about criminal prosecution for lying or lusting after your hot neighbor? have you ever had a bad thought about your mother or father and disrespected them in some way? if so, should you be thrown in jail for that or should you just be given a fine and probation? should the proprietors of seafood restaurants be prosecuted for selling shellfish?
Gay acceptance doesn't mean questioning of straight anymore than accepting Jews means questioning of Catholicism. As I stated in another thread just because society is going one way doesn't mean everyone should go the other way. You aren't being forced to accept something you don't agree with, while yes you have to abide by the laws to not discriminate, you can still think the way you want and as I argued for in another thread teach your kids the way you want. The counter argument is that you have a hard time teaching your kids your values when society says otherwise. Frankly that is your problem and not society's. Your example of a bum makes no sense. Are bums telling people that they should live like bums? If anything bums are an object lesson to not be bums. Also your example of using a bum is flawed since you are implying that bums and homosexuals are social negatives when even you acknowledge that homosexuals aren't necessarily drags on society. And you last point about Gay means gay men and women or bisexuals don't count. Why is that? Do you only think that gay men should be discriminated against when if you are arguing about the threat of same sex marriage that would apply to women and bisexuals who decide to marry their same gender.
But how would they alter or adjust for the bias?? Since you can't be sure if the answers are totally truthful or not.
