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What is fascism?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by StupidMoniker, Apr 22, 2023.

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What is fascism?

  1. Everything within the state, nothing against the state, nothing outside of the state

    87.5%
  2. Little or no interference from the government in the lives of citizens

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Capitalism, including the mixed economy seen in the United States today

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. Libertarianism

    12.5%
  1. DaDakota

    DaDakota If you want to know, just ask!
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    That is the same tact that Trump tried, with the help of Tucker Goebels Carlson.

    DD
     
  2. dobro1229

    dobro1229 Contributing Member

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    None of the above.

    Also I know the word fascist is used often when it really should be autocracy. Russia is a prime example of what the right openly aspires to wanting in terms of this blend of a strongman at the top (Trump, or something alike DeSantis, etc.), and a corrupt oligarchy of billionaires who have a direct quid pro quo type of relationship with the strongman. Politically they aspire to have policies that economically serve the oligarchy while the social policies serve only their supporters while silencing those who would oppose with fear, violence, and heavy policing.

    You can call the MAGA fever dream whatever you want, but it's probably better to point out the parallels around the world rather than just giving it a title taken out of the 1930's.

    In Eastern Europe it's "Putin's Russia."
    In Hungary it's "Orban's Hungary"

    In the US it would be best described as "MAGA Republican" because it could be Trump's America but the aspirations go beyond Trump as he's more of a brand name. MAGA Republican is more fitting since the majority of the party has the same autocratic vision, and some like MTG etc. would take it even further.

    Is it Fascistic???.. maybe but that's a 1930's term used to describe the 2020's problem that is the MAGA Republicans which deserve their own title, and parallels to Putin's Russia.
     
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  3. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost not wrong
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  4. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Communism is technically a far left philosophy. It's about the state dictating every facet of life.
     
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  5. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    bump for chowd
     
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  6. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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    post all your fascism-related content here
     
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  7. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    It seems like your only objection is you being called out.

    That's really narcissistic. Fascism doesn't revolve around you. You're only a small piece. Maybe if you had a following on Twitter and spread the same content but this is a Rockets message board and your reach is limited.


    Fascism is a lot more than just you being butthurt being labeled one because of your immense posting history.
     
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    In other news - the Ron DeSantis staffer - this is the high boots/homophobe/chinese exclusion laws/academic purge/corporate control/personal paramilitarys force Ron DeSantis, for those of you keeping score - who was fired because he continually created the openly neo nazi DeSantis content complete with Himmler imagery, rather than the quiet normal American Psycho kind of DeSantis content...

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/desantis-staff-keep-sharing-twitter-page-that-makes-nazi-memes

    ...Had a side gig writing articles for the National Review for the consumption of the @Os Trigonum s and @StupidMoniker s and @basso of the universe arguing that -

    Liberals are too quick to accuse others of fascism

    Now i know the defense is "was just gaslighting ya a bit bro, as part of master plan" (with inevitable and oh so creative submerged holocaust callback in the gas reference)- but you know who these ****ers are gaslighting when they're tweeting out their most recent sonnenrad meme in search of triggeration?

    They're gaslighting their ****in selves man. Get a less unhappy life, you only get 1.
     
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  9. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Two things can be true. Some random white supremacist can make pro-Ron DeSantis videos AND the word fascism can be used too much and applied to things that aren't fascist. Once you call libertarianism fascist, you have gone off the deep end of the second point. I personally don't care who makes DeSantis videos and won't be voting for DeSantis because I don't agree with his politics. Some random twitter video a campaign staffer made or retweeted or both doesn't move the needle for me at all. I don't disagree with his politics because they are fascist (they aren't) but because they are still big government auth right just like almost every politician in America.
     
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  10. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    The irony here is that Hollywood is essentially responsible for Americans like you to not understand what fascism is. When all fascist depictions in Hollywood are mustache twirling Nazis doing mad science experiments like in Narvel movies, the label of fascist has such a strong taboo behind it that you can ly apply it to people who do mass shootings or something.


    The reality is the vast majority of the Nazi voting base compromised small business owners and middle managers who were like "at least they aren't advocating to stake away my property". The fear of the small business owner becoming a propertyless working class poor was the bigger driver of the Nazi voting base the crazy Aryan race science rhetoric was just screamed out by the loudest voices.

    So ya DeSantis is absolutely a fascist.
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    No, I actually know and understand what fascism is. I have even posted the primary sources here in this very thread. You are under the mistaken impression that a small government free market system is fascist. That's because you are a Marxist-Leninist and everything to the right of Mao is fascist to you.
     
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  12. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    So Mitch is just to the right of Mao?
     
  13. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
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    Mitch McConnell? Yes, right of Mao. DeSantis? Right of Mao. Jo Jorgenson? Right of Mao. Spike Cohen, Barak Obama, Gary Johnson, Ronald Reagan, whoever else you think is fascist, all right of Mao.
     
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  14. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    I said "just" as in the spectrum, "near adjacent".
     
  15. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    The same can be said though about the misunderstanding of what is socialism or communism in this culture. That what many people think is driven by Hollywood depictions of Slavic or Asian looking strongmen in Soviet style outfits torturing Rambo and hunting down high school students.

    Certainly there were many German business owners and Bourgeoisie who supported Nazism because they saw it as an alternative to social chaos and Communism. At the same time though many business owners opposed Nazism as many businesses were owned by Jews or did business with Jews. One of the most important stories of resistance to the Nazis was a business owner and small time industrialist Oskar Schindler. Why he saw Jews as fellow humans worth saving was because he had done business with them.
    There are plenty of fascist tendencies with DeSantis. One of those though isn’t his support of businesses but that he wants to punish businesses unless they support his cultural and political positions. That is a very different view than Libertarianism and definitely not small business friendly government.
     
  16. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    Yes those are exceptions. The vast majority of small businesses owners were part of the dominant culture and either were at best ambivalent to the Jews or actively hated them especially in regions like Bravaria or any place outside major urban centers.

    And when I mean "small business owners" I'm not even referring to upper middle class. I'm referring to small shop keepers barely clinging on fearing that they will end up propertyless completely like the commies wanting to steal their property.

    My point is a lot of these fears of loss were rational fears the Nazi party took advantage of.
     
  17. Os Trigonum

    Os Trigonum Contributing Member
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  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Sorry I missed this earlier.

    Following Oppenheimer I've been studying up on the history of German Physicists and how they dealt with the Nazi regime. Nearly all of them hated the Nazis but several weren't willing to speak out against them or even worked for them. Does that mean that physicists were actually pro-Fascist? Or does that mean that they were often afraid for their own safety, the safety of others and what their futures might be like?

    Under the argument you're making that small business owners / aka Libertarians, are actually fascist that would also mean that physicists and the field of Quantum Mechanics are actually fascists and lead to Fascism since people like Heisenberg, Planck and the Hahn all worked for the Nazi regime.
     
  19. fchowd0311

    fchowd0311 Contributing Member

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    There is a difference between doing nothing out of fear and actively voting for the Nazi party. Hitler took over the nation through undemocratic means but that didn't mean he didn't have a strong voting base especially in small towns and rural regions in regions like Bravaria.

    These people I'm referring to has rational fears about their businesses going under and becoming one of "the poor" but those rational fears were weaponized by the Nazi propaganda machine to where they were convinced that commies and labor organizers were a bigger threat that wackos going on race science rants and removing Jews from the Riechland.

    Think of your typical small business Trump supporter today who isn't an explicit white supremacist. It is important to understand that it didn't take millions of mustache twirling evil people to create a fascist state that did ethnic cleansing. It just took a slightly privileged class of people fearing losing everything and power hungry loudest psychopaths at the top manipulating that class of people.
     
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Contributing Member

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    Obviously there were many Germans who supported the Nazis. Anti-Semitism was widespread and fear of the Communists. Heisenberg hated the Nazis but he also thought Communism was very dangerous. He also felt that Germany needed a historical renewal. Heisenberg's assistant outrightly supported the Nazis. Again that doesn't mean that quantum mechanics leads to Fascism.

    I think the problem with your argument is that you're painting with a very broad brush. You're arguing that because many small business owners in 1930's Germany supported Nazis means that Libertarianism is the same or leads to Fascism. Again many small business owners in Germany were also Jewish and / or did businesses with Jewish people. (Oskar Schindler). Yes many small business owners support Trump in the US now. Many don't. That doesn't mean that believing in small business and wanting less regulations on small business leads to Fascism.

    In fact many politicians on the Left themselves talk about empowering small businesses. Bernie Sanders talks about helping small businesses:
    https://www.sanders.senate.gov/bern...erican-rescue-plan-and-where-we-go-from-here/
    Does that mean Sanders is on the road to Fascism?
     

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