What if we packaged a deal that would send Drew, Thomas and Walt to the Bucks for Tim Thomas and their pick? Thomas doesn't play and the Bucks dont have a backup pg. We then draft Dermarr Johnson and Joel Pryzbilla assuming we can get both (Johnson is the player that we need, he is Glen Rice with size and D so if we had to trade both pix to get him do it). ------------------
Johnson is the player that we need, he is Glen Rice with size and D so if we had to trade both pix to get him do it Glen Rice with size? Johnson is an inch taller than Glen Rice. Why do I keep hearing DerMarr Johnson compared to Glen Rice? Glen Rice was a great rebounder in college and even in the NBA he's got a good post up game. DerMarr Johnson averaged under 4 rebounds a game and doesn't really post up (maybe because of his weight). Glen Rice is a great shooter even by NBA standards, DerMarr Johnson shot 39% from the 19'9" college 3 pt line. Also, DerMarr Johnson isn't that great of a defensive player. DerMarr Johson has good potential, but currently he's not ready for the NBA. He needs to stay at Cincy and develop his game more. Of course, it's hard to turn down the NBA money, so he might come out. ------------------
Haha aelliot, I was the who said DerMarr has a pure shot, someone like Glen Rice. I didn't mean he WAS Rice, except his shooting form is excellent. He does have a problem in that he doesn't get into the offense stance(Triple threat position), but I mean that's the smallest of all problems. Trust me, DerMarr is the real deal, the problem is whether he will come out. If he comes out, this guy is the best player is draft no doubt and we should trade Drew and whatever it takes to get him. However, we picked the wrong year to go into the lottery as all the players that are perfect for us are staying another year. ------------------ A big time draft site has tried to stunt our growth, but we will succeed! The little draft site that could!
Actually I was replying to the initial post in this thread by UTBaller where he characterized Johnson as "Glen Rice with size". Since he's basically the same height as Rice and his game isn't too similar I thought that was a strange comparision to be making. The only reason that I even commented is because the Chicago Trib made the same comparision ( http://chicagotribune.com/sports/bulls/article/0,2669,ART-43294,FF.html ) but I just don't see it. As far as DerMarr being the real deal, I'll have to say that it's still all potential. He wasn't even the best freshman in C-USA. George Williams is a better defender and beat him in every statistical category except blocks and FT%. Like I said before, if you're expecting DerMarr Johnson to come in to the NBA and make and immediate contribution, then you're going to be disappointed. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 22, 2000).] [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 22, 2000).]
I dont watch all that much college ball outside of the Big XII, but didn't Johnson hit like five threes in a half this season? The guy may not have the shooting prowess of a Glen Rice, but he can light it up. The guy is getting so much press for a freshman that he must have mad skills. Anyway, I think that the 2 and 3 position in the NBA is evolving with players like McGrady and Garnett (sometimes a 3). A guy that is 6'9'' and can drive and shoot lights out is what we need to complement Stevie. Morris and one of the highschoolers also fit this mold, however Morris has not had the kind of games recently one would expect from a potential first pick. I like what Ive heard of Johnson and I hope like hell we can land him. ------------------
but didn't Johnson hit like five threes in a half this season? The guy may not have the shooting prowess of a Glen Rice, but he can light it up At 19'9", is five 3 pointers in a half all that amazing? The guy is still only averaging 12 points a game and shooting 39% from behind the arc. A guy that is 6'9'' and can drive and shoot lights out is what we need to complement Stevie Well, Johnson doesn't drive all that much and his shooting this year can't really be described as shooting the lights out. Morris has not had the kind of games recently one would expect from a potential first pick. Interesting that you'd say that. What abilities has DerMarr Johnson shown that Morris hasn't? Morris had alot better year than Johnson. Why the preference for Johnson? Is it just because he's two years younger? ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 22, 2000).]
My preference for Johnson is based on two facts: 1)Kenyon Martin is the focal point of cinci's attack (or was atleast) so Dermarr didn't have the green light to go out and do whatever he wanted. 2) Terrence Morris has been touted throughout the year as the next Pippen/McKey and has not delivered like expected. I saw the Terps play DePaul and Morris seemed to be lightyears behind Quentin Richardson. These are just my humble opinions, I am not an expert. ------------------
Tim Thomas shows a lot of potential. Exceptional athlete. Handles the ball well and can stick the perimeter jumper. Excellent footwork and quickness for his size. But Thomas is more style than substance. For all the talent Thomas has, he is not as productive as he should be. He left after one year at Villanova. He's still young at 23. Don't be deceived by his 6'10" size, he doesn't have the strength or heart to be a decent rebounder. He's a natural small forward. Has played a little 2 guard too. But he's definately a perimeter player. His agent is asking for a contract larger than Kelvin Cato's, so it looks like he's not going to be available for the 2 million dollar exception. Disregarding contract demands, I would rather take Austin Croshere. He's not the athlete that Thomas is, but he is a good athlete nonetheless. He can provide some solid perimeter play. But he can also do damage down low. Solid post moves. Knows how play the game. He's a tough kid who doesn't mind mixing it up unlike Tim Thomas. Plays with fire and you have to like those kind of players. My advice is to stay away from Thomas unless he is willing to settle for a meager contract which is borderline on being impossible. ------------------
Glen Rice was a great, great college player. I think he was even very good as a freshman, probably more effective than Johnson this year. Saying Johnson isn't at the level of Glen Rice doesn't mean he wouldn't be a good pick though. I have been thinking about Thomas too. He is young and seems to have sive and some shooting ability. I would consider using a 2 million exemption for him and sign him as a free agent. I am a little disturded by his low rebounding and blocks for a forward with his size. If anyone would like to break down his skills and potential relative to say Austin Croshere (another guy recently discussed) or other soon-to-be free agent second tier forwards I would be interested in hearing it. ------------------
I think that Dermarr has the potential to have the shooting ability of Rice, but he reminds me of a Sprewell type or a taller, more athletic version of Penny Hardaway. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Drag-On 88 (edited March 22, 2000).]
Don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to say that Johnson would be a bad pick. It's just that I've seen him compared to Glen Rice a couple of times now and I don't see too many similarities in their games. Also, if a team drafts Johnson, it will be for potential not because of what he'll be able to contribute immediately. Johnson' got a big upside, but potential is far from a sure thing. If we were to draft DerMarr Johnson, we shouldn't expect him to contribute for a couple of years. It's a similar situation to the one Indy has with Johnathan Bender. He's not currently ready, but they're willing to wait. I just don't want to see everybody expect DerMarr Johnson to come in and make a huge difference on the Rockets and then after half a season be calling him a bust. As far as the Sprewell or Hardaway comparisions, I don't think Johnson handles the ball well enough to be compared to those guys. I think he'll have to play the 3 in the NBA. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 22, 2000).]
My preference for Johnson is based on two facts: 1)Kenyon Martin is the focal point of cinci's attack (or was atleast) so Dermarr didn't have the green light to go out and do whatever he wanted. Ok, let's see what Johnson did after Kenyon Martin was injured: St.Louis - (Martin injured after 3 minutes) 6pts - Cincy loses. North Carolina Wilmington - 13pts - Cincy wins Tulsa - 6pts - Cincy loses. Not only didn't Johnson step up after Martin's injury, he pretty much disappeared when Cincy needed him most. 2) Terrence Morris has been touted throughout the year as the next Pippen/McKey and has not delivered like expected. What exactly did you expect? He's #7 in the ACC in scoring (15.8), #3 in rebounding (8.6),#8 in steals (1.6),#4 in blocked shots(2.1),#13 in FG% (49.3) and #18 in assists (2.4). Sounds pretty Pippen-like to me. I saw the Terps play DePaul and Morris seemed to be lightyears behind Quentin Richardson. Where did you see them play? I can't seem to find DePaul anywhere on the Maryland schedule. http://www.fansonly.com/confs/acc/sports/m-baskbl/stats/md/game-log-md.html [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 23, 2000).]
As far as Morris's assessment, I see it more like UTballer, I am not that high on him. You expect a dominant athelete to score well over 16 points per game in college. I guessing if you compare his numbers to say other versitile SF's like Grant Hill, Glen Robinson, Jamal Mashburn or even John Wallace, Morris college stats don't stack up. Morris isn't strickly a scorer. That's pretty much all that Robinson, Mashburn or Wallace do. Morris contributes in alot of areas that those guys don't. Let's face it, those 3 guys combined would have a difficult time guarding lawn furniture, let alone an opposing SF. As far as Grant Hill, his senior year at Duke he averaged 17.4 ppg, 6.8 reb,1.17 blk, 1.88 stl and 5.2 apg. How can you say that Morris' numbers of 15.8ppg,8.6 reb,2.1 blk,1.6 stl and 2.4 apg don't stack up? I'm not trying to say that Morris is on the level of Grant Hill, but you can't dismiss the guy just because he only averaged 15.8ppg this year. Does DerMarr Johnson have great potential? You bet he does. Morris is just alot surer bet than Johnson. There's lots of highly touted HS players that come into college and never really progress as expected. Remember Felipe Lopez? Cover of SI coming out of HS. He was going to be St. John's savior. How did he turn out? Good college career and a bench player in the NBA, but hardly somebody that you'd spend a lottery pick on. ------------------
You guys are missing the whole point of Morris's strength. He's a great compliment, not a star. Understand that, same with Pippen, he can't take role of the leader. In 3 possesions against UCLA this is exactly what Morris does. 1-Baxton gets doubled, swings it over to Morris waiting in Corner, nails the three OVER a jumping Gazuric. On the other end, almost get steal, ball goes out of bounds. UCLA scores with Moiso. 2-He gets good position down in post, they throw it low, he throws a hook shot over a helping Gazuric. Plays good defense on other end. 3-Gets rebound off UCLA miss, lead the break, stops and pops the jumper. If you are expecting a go-to guy Morris is not one, but he can be a great compliment. DerMarr is the better player, but Morris is the better compliment. ------------------ A big time draft site has tried to stunt our growth, but we will succeed! The little draft site that could!
Johnson has shown nothing except to be a good compliment for Martin. When Martin was out, the guy played terrible, even though he is a freshman. Your description of Morris makes me want him more, sounds good to me. ------------------ Is it any coincidence that we are the only team mentioned in the national anthem? I didn't think so!
What I meant was if they go one on one or you needed a go-to guy(#1 option), DerMarr would be better than Morris. However if you had an established star like Francis already Morris would be a better compliment than DerMarr. ------------------ A big time draft site has tried to stunt our growth, but we will succeed! The little draft site that could! [This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited March 23, 2000).]
AElliot, I think calling Mashburn or even Robinson strictly a scorer is quite a stretch. If you could put Mash and Robinson college numbers up along side Morris's I like to see if the latter's are competitive--especially in points in rebounds. My hunch is they aren't, but if Morris's stacks up OK I'll retract my lackluster support of Morris. I agree his numbers are in the ball park of Hill's but almost 3 points scoring difference is more than insignificant and Hill pretty much single handedly carried his last team to the championship game--that's where he showed his true potential (BTW-where is a good cite to get college stats). I would think most very good pro players should dominate in college, and that is not what I have seen from Morris--in his court demeanor or results (Maryland continued early exits from the turny). Like I said I see him like a McKey, D. Marshall or Horry-type player, a decent player, but not an impact pro, but I could be swayed. [This message has been edited by sir scarvajal (edited March 23, 2000).]
I haven't found a good source for historical college stats. I got Grant Hill's off of his site http://www.granthill.com. The difference in scoring between Morris and Hill is 1.6 pts/game (17.4 - 15.8), not almost 3 points. I guess my opinion of your statement "I would think most very good pro players should dominate in college", depends on how you are defining "dominate"? What about another Maryland guy that averaged 17ppg and 4.5apg, but his team fades in the 2nd half of the season and didn't make much noise in the NCAA Tournament? Do you considering that dominating in college? Of course I'm talking about Stevie. Same for Vince Carter, I'll bet that his NC stats are very similar to Morris. Anyway, I'm really not trying to convince you that Morris is awesome. All I was trying to show was that people are hyping DerMarr Johnson based on potential, not on anything that he's demonstrated on the court. Fact is there's not a Grant Hill or Tim Duncan in this draft. There's several very good players available, but no great ones. If a team wants to roll the dice and draft a player based totally on his potential, then people need to realize what's going on and set their expectations accordingly. If you put DerMarr Johnson on our current roster, Walt Williams would still be your starting 3 on opening day and people would be calling Johnson a bust. I personally don't think that the Rockets can afford to gamble with a top 6 or 7 pick. If they screw up this pick, then this season has been a total waste. ------------------ [This message has been edited by aelliott (edited March 23, 2000).]
I wouldn't say DerMarr would be bust. He's on of the few real deals in the draft. He needs to bulk up in my opinion. However, how many 6'9 guards do u know that can stroke it and play defense? Can you imagine the matchup problems it creates? At 6-7 pick you can either one gamble with a player who has the potential to be a top 3, or go on safe side and pick a second-tier player. Personally, we are young, might as well roll the dice. It don't matter if we get a bust, Swift will be there next year when we are in the lotto again. Plus shouldn't this discussion be in L2000 forum? ------------------ A big time draft site has tried to stunt our growth, but we will succeed! The little draft site that could! [This message has been edited by rocketsfan34 (edited March 23, 2000).]
My bad, I thought Morris's PPG# was 14.8. Here are some notes on Robinson from the NBA, he was the first Purdue player ever to tally at least 1,000 points, 500 rebounds, 100 assists, 100 steals, and 50 blocks in one season. His last year he was 30PPG scorer, and based on the above numbers, had to have been well above a 10RBG guy. Those are might impressive all around numbers. They don't have much on Mash, but I would think he was at least a 25/8 player his last year, plus plenty of steals and a few blocks and asissts. I was just looking at some numbers from this year, and another SF came up(I'll call him mystery "GuyX" for now). This guy is 1 inch shorter (at least according to reports which we know can be unreliable) than Morris though has a little more strength. He also got his reputation as a defensive stopper. Compare their numbers against similar competition this year: NAME ppg rbg apg bpg spg fg$ ft% 3% Morris 15.8 8.6 2.6 2.1 1.7 49% 75% 37% GUYX 17.6 5.8 2.1 1.9 2.0 51% 82% 47% Given GUYX is talked about as like a mid to late 1st round pick if he declares I would rather trade down to get him and pick up another decent 1st rounder either this year or the next. Who is GUYX, it is Shane B. from that team I love to see lose but rarely does. I actually went on and compared their statistics this year head to head (assumming they often draw each other's cover). In 3 games: --Morris has 47PTS, 36RB, 7AS, 8ST, 4BLK & 5TO on 19 of 53 shooting. --GUYX has 52PTS, 19RB, 5AS, 9ST, 7BLK & 6TO on 17 of 36 shooting. I would call it pretty much a draw, GUYX is a better shooter, Morris hits the boards harder. Yes I have a little too much time on my hands, but its food for thought. I would rather trade down and take GUYX with a mid-first round pick + get something else (like a probable good next years #1) than take Morris with a low (4-7) pick. ------------------
