1984 Hakeem Olajuwon instead of Michael Jordan ( We had a center for God's sake) ------------------ "Break off the block like Maurice Green" --- Steve Francis President of the Moochie Norris fan club.
Olajuwan has justified his #1 pick that year. Can't argue with a 10+ all star, 2 finals MVP, and HOF. We had a center, but what did we really have? Ralf Sampson. Still like to dream about having Jordan and Drexler. We passed up on that twice. Me thinks Rocks have done pretty well in the draft. PG Cassell SG Mobley SF Horry PF Othello C We haven't drafted anyone good b/c Hakeem, although the last real C's we drafted were ROY, How many wins would that lineup have with an added FA C? Better than the Bulls. ------------------ "Chucky who? I thought we were talking about basketball?" Charles Barkley
The fallacy with this sort of thinking is that once one thing is done (e.g. Rick Fox instead of John Turner), everything after that will be different. Perhaps Fox would have contributed to a few extra wins that would have precluded the drafting of Horry or Cassell. Let's not forget, that BOTH of those players were integral to the Rockets 2 championships. If either one was not drafted, it is quite possible the Rockets would not have any championships. ------------------
Lets just hope we pick the right player in this draft and not some big stiff. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
I have to agree with Colby, I think we have done pretty well in the Draft. Who has done better drafting as low as we have in most drafts. 1.Cassell was the second best pick in the Draft next to Webber that year. Nick is a close third IMO 2.Horry was not only an integral part of two championships, but it was his ability to play the 4 spot that allowed us to trade Thorpe for Clyde for our second Championship. Spree could not have played D on Horace Grant. 3. You mention Drew/Turcson instead of Harrington/Lewis. I would love to have Lewis but for christ sake we got Mobes and Dickerson out of that draft. Those two in one draft is a pretty good haul. And don't forget Dickerson was the main ingrediant in getting Steve Francis. All things considerd the 98 draft was a huge success. 4. Kenny Thomas has been as good as Vontego Cummmings. Vontego has started and played a lot more because of the quality of team he is on. He would be a back up here, contributing no more than KT. 5. We drafted Pryzbilla with the intent of trading him to the Bucks for Collier. Am I really suppose to get excited about seeing Turkguli on here? He does nothing for me. This last draft was sucky at best. If Collier ever gets healthy he may still be a nice Center in this league. Langhi may also turn into a nice player. I have no complaints about what the Rockets have gotten out of the draft during the past 9 years. And I would much rather have a back court with Francis and Mobes than Nick and Spree. ------------------
Francis3 you disappoint me!!! How could you say we should have taken MJ over Olajuwon????? Hakeem has proven his worth to Houston, the NBA, and basketball overall. Bad call Francis3...bad call! ------------------ Arkansas' Biggest Rocket Fan!
I don't think there is any fallacy here really, although admittedly it is just total speculation. The picks I've suggested to replace our actual picks were not immediately taken next. In some cases they were 8-12 picks later and realistically could still have been had by the Rockets even if better picks in years prior had helped to improve our record and worsen our drafting position. In the cases of the high-schoolers, they have little or no impact for several years, but I would like to have Rashard Lewis and Al Harrington maturing with our core group NOW instead of the rookies we get NEXT YEAR. Tukuglu is getting major minutes with the Kings NOW. I'd say he is someone to be very pleased by if not get excited about. Or we could have gone for DeShawn Stevenson. When you look back at these drafts, the most shocking fact is how many of the BIG GUYS aren't even in the league anymore. Houston drafted a series of them going back to Dave Feitl in the 80's. Seems like most of the guys that stick in the league are the guards. KT was a great pick! I'm not harping on the Rockets draft record. They have made some great choices. At the same time, they dumped the two best #1 picks we had in the 90s (Horry and Cassell) in pursuit of Barkley and sold out our future. NO first round picks in 94, 95, and 96 (even though we won two championships while MJ was out of the league) and it's been rough sailing ever since. If we had kept those picks, we could have had Michael Finley, Jerome Williams, and Lawerence Funderburke. Three of our could-have-hads are getting major minutes for the Kings on natiional TV this afternoon. That could have been us. Summary, keep your own picks; develop your own talent. Never pay premium price for a guy near the end of his career. (See Barkley and Motumbo-- maybe even Drexler-- we shold have drafted him instead of McCray). See how it all comes together! ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited February 25, 2001).]
Professional sports (for the most part) are a "win now" business. If you have the opportunity to win a championship today, you must make the necessary sacrifices of the future to attain them. The Rockets thought they had one more run with Hakeem, thus they sacrificed part of the future to get Barkley. You can't fault them for that. It was similar to the Astros situation when they gave up 2 starting pitchers (wouldn't it be nice to see Garcia and Halama in the Astros rotation?) for Randy Johnson. They had the opportunity to win then and they made a bold move. They may regret it now, but it was certainly the right thing to do. Incidentally, Thorpe for Drexler was not a very high premium. Granted, Thorpe is still in the league, but he doesn't contribute a lot. That was a trade that was a success as it led to a championship. ------------------
Yea, & if a frog had wings, he wouldn't bump his a** every time he jumped. With the exception of the Harrington/Lewis picks, none of those (coulda been) players would impress me anymore than what we have now. ------------------
Would of, could of, should of...the way the Rockets have done buisness over the last two decades has brought us 2 NBA championships 4 Western Conference titles and a trip to the play offs almost every year. Only the Lakers, Bulls and Celtics have been better. Most teams would love to have had our success. I would not change a thing. ------------------
That Randy Johnson deal was even worse than the one for Charles Barkley. We didn't even have him under contract but until the end of the season. What a great loss those young players were. Astros will feel the effects of that stupid move for a decade. I'd rather have Horry and Cassell right now than to have had Barkley (as entertaining as he was) for the brief time we did. bobrek, I don't agree with your analysis at all. The part of the future they sacrificed (Horry and Casseel) to make one more run with Hakeem was AN INTEGRAL PART OF THE TEAM THAT HAD ALREADY JUST WON TWO CHAMPIONSHIPS. Didn't we cut off our nose to spite our face? hottoddie: frogs have NEVER had wings but we did at one time have those picks and those particular players were selected after than selection spot in that particular draft. What is so desperately far-fetched about that? Furthermore, you just rejected Michael Finley, Jerome Williams, and Marc Jackson. Are you really not impressed by those guys in addition to Lewis and Harrington? crash: We could have had Van Exel, Spree, Mobes and either Dickerson or Francis-- not to mention Howard Eiseley if we had had a pick in '94 and Michael Finley if we had had a pick in '95. I'm not saying NEVER make a deal. Our deal to acquire Francis was a good one. I'd make that deal everytime because Francis is a special talent. Dickerson is a very good player but Francis will be a GREAT player. I'm not trying to incriminate the Rockets brass. I do appreciate that they won back-to-back championships (even with the asterisk). I do have the advantage of hindsight and was having some fun concocting realistic scenarios about what might have turned out with a different team-building strategy (fewer trades and more reliance on developing and keeping our own players) and ultimately a different choice on draft day. ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited February 25, 2001).]
RICH, I empathisize with you greatly. You are certainly clouded in your rationalization skills. The ROUND MOUND has been a godsend in more ways than one. Horry? Horry? Horry? What the HHHHHHEEEEEELLLLLLL has he done lately for the Lakers? Cassel, I feel you a bit, but only a bit and no more. Sam, The big doggy, mr. He got game: and they haven't done Jacko. Chuck, you say? What about Chuck ( or Charles for the neurologically limited posters out there in computer world )? What Chuck has done is show this organization what playing your heart out meant! Sure he had a nice, casual non-playing lifestyle. BUT when it came time for him to play, he did so like a dude possessed. And Anatomically - this should not be possible. A Guy 6 foot and 4 and 7/8 inches weighing 265 to 300 lbs. Literally playing his guts off. he should be just another fat ass sitting on the couch and stuffing his face. Yet the guy was a monster on the court who gave it everything he had. The dude would drip buckets and buckets of sweat. All because he loved basketball and was a complete freak of nature. I give thanks that we had the opportunity to have the round mound play here!!!! O yea, he instilled a legacy to young uns like Francis to leave it on the floor when you play. 100% pure, unadulterated effort! ------------------ Sometimes you gotta do the next best thing! [This message has been edited by ROXRAN (edited February 25, 2001).]
RichRocket, I'm not saying that I'm not impressed with those 3 players. I'm saying that we didn't have any picks to take them with, so how can we complain about not taking them. ROXRAN summed it up best, the Rockets went after an incredible player in the form of Charles Barkley. Using your proposed approach, we should forget about making a run at Webber next year (if it requires a sign & trade deal), resign just the players we have now, sign any FA's that we have money left over for & pull out our crystal ball to figure out which players are going to be super stars in the future. Unfortunately, it's not an exact science, as you referred to at the end of your first post. Look how long it took Marc Jackson & Antawn Jamison to show anything. Sorry if I'm being a jerk, but of all the drafts that you proposed, the only one that I wish would've been different was the Drew/Turcksan for Harrington/Lewis draft. I guess the greatest what if scenario of all time is the one where we could've traded Sampson & been in a position to have Jordan/Dream/Drexler on the same team for their entire careers. Can anyone say dynasty? The frog reference was to show the futility of WHAT IF. ------------------
RichRocket What were your feelings the day the Astros made the trade for Johnson? What were your feelings when the Dome was rocking with a boisterous sellout every game Johnson pitched? What were your feelings going into the playoffs when Johnson had gone 10-1 with a miniscule ERA? I suspect if the Astros had the opportunity to peer into the future and see that Johnson would not lead them to a World Series, then they would not have made the deal, but then, they have to have the guts to pull the trigger, which they did and MOST real Astros fans appreciated that move. I have followed the team since their inception and the day they made that trade gave me the greatest hope that I ever had that they would make it to the World Series and that they were doing everything they could to get there. Now back to basketball... The Utah Jazz are a fairly good example of a team that has stayed together and has attempted to build from within (the draft, minor free agents, minor trades). They have not signed any high priced free agents and they have not made any blockbuster trades. How many championships have they won? They allowed Stockton and Malone to grow old together yet haven't brought a single championship banner to the team (and only one finals appearance) in 16 years. It would be great if basketball had a minor league system which a team could use to stockpile talent to use to develop a team and make trades with, but it doesn't exist. ------------------
Could have drafted Drexler in 83'. Could have then traded Sampson to Portland for #2 pick then take Hakeem and MJ 1 and 2. It could have all happened like that. Houston had no idea that Sampson would have knee problems or that MJ would be the greatest of all-time, if they did then they would have traded Ralph. Hindsight is always 20/20. If we had Dream, Drex, and MJ then they would have won every championship to date. That would be like 16 in a row. It would have been the greatest sports dynasty of all-time and would never be topped. It would have been even greater than the Yankees 26 WS championships. Shoulda, coulda, woulda. ------------------
All of the belly-aching I read here about poor drafting in years past got me to thinking and looking. What could we have done better: 1991 John Turner instead of Rick Fox 1992 Robert Horry instead of Latrell Sprewell (teammates for God's sake) 1993 Sam Cassell instead of Nick Van Exel (close call) 1994 No Pick-- could have had Eiseley or Funderburke 1995 No Pick-- could have had Michael Finley 1996 No Pick-- could have had Jerome Williams got Othella in RD 2 1997 Rodrick Rhodes instead of Marc Jackson 1998 Drew/Turcksan instead of Harrington/Lewis 1999 Kenny Thomas instead of Vonteego Cummings (no way) 2000 Joel Pryzbilla istead Hidayet Turkguli and whatever else develops A lineup or backup to include: 1 Van Exel 2 Sprewell 3 Lewis 4 Harrington 5 Jackson wouldn't be too bad. Drafting is tough, though. Most teams made these same mistakes. ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com
I'm from out-of-state, so I don't feel the fervor that you guys do. I didn't like the Johnson deal when I read aout it because it was a steep price and Johnson had never given ANY indication that Houston might be a home for him. One can't make decisions of this magnitude on the swelling of emotion; it has to be rational. That steep price for what was likely one shot. Now a shot wasted. Coulda, woulda, shoulda is one of the very essences of being a fan. Nothing wrong and e verything right with that. The Rockets put themselves in the position of going three straight years without a #1 pick when their stars were aging (in order Drexler, Barkley, and Hakeem) plus they had dumped their two most effective picks in Horry and Cassell. I don't see that as effective personnel management. If you love Barkley, I can understand why you don't reach the same conclusion. I admire Barkley's work ethic. Can you get him to pound on Cato awhile?! I wish WE had drafted Barkley but he was never available to us. Read again. I didn't say to never make trades. I think it better to build through the draft and tinker with free agency and trades. Here comes the heresty: if Houston had drafted Stockton and Malone, we would have won a ton of championships because Free Agents WANT TO COME TO HOUSTON. That's Utah's problem; no one wants to go there. I'll take the team I've concocted through my 20-20 hindsight scenarios and whip the current Rocket's ass. Remember I still get to keep Hakeem, Steve, Cuttino, Kenny, and Mo Taylor. Plus I get to flavor in either Horry or Sprewell, Cassell or Van Exel, Eiseley or Funderburke in '94, Michael Finley in '95, Jerome Williams in '96, Marc Jackson in '97, Harrington AND Rashard in '98. Oops that's 13! We'll stash Kenny on the IR! Who do we have that cost us all of those draft picks! SooneRockStro-- You have gone over the top with 16 straight titles. You must be some kind of fan... Miggedy-- That's the point. Players drafter in the 90s should still be on your team! You catch on quick... ------------------ Time is a great teacher-- only problem is it kills all its pupils. PowerbizOnline.com [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited February 26, 2001).] [This message has been edited by RichRocket (edited February 26, 2001).]
Marc Jackson drafted in 97???? I thought we were in 2001 now, Oh well. ------------------ Miggidy Markell says: 1. Eastcoast is da sh*t 2. Rockets rule 3. Hip/Hop is dope 4. Buy the new Ruff Ryders album! Miggidy Markell is watching Stay STRAPPED & WATCH ya back or be Assimilated.
This most have been a Reliance Energy Post! ------------------ [This message has been edited by crash5179 (edited February 26, 2001).]
