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What Are The Rockets Going to Do About Depth at the 2 Spot??

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Manny Ramirez, Aug 20, 2002.

  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    I have enjoyed this off-season so far. We get the #1 pick and make the right choice in Yao Ming. We get a steal in the #15 pick in Bostjan Nachbar. Plus we get a possible diamond-in-the-rough in Tito Maddox in the 2nd round.

    Sure, there were talks of getting Rashard Lewis and Lamar Odom, but remember, we have 2 guys coming back from injuries that made them miss significant time last season in Mo Taylor and Glenn Rice. That right there makes them almost like newcomers to the team.

    Surveying the roster, I like everything except one thing, depth at SG. Here is a "preliminary" depth chart (3 deep):

    PG - Francis, Moochie, Tito or Tierre
    SG - Mobley, Torres (?), Francis (?)
    SF - Rice, Nachbar, Griffin
    PF - Taylor, Griffin, Thomas
    C - Cato, Ming, Taylor or Griffin
    Injured - Morris

    If Rice comes back healthy and that is a big IF, then we are in great shape at the 3 spot. The 4 spot may be our most talented position in looking at what each of these 3 (Taylor, Thomas, Griffin) can do with their strengths (I know that some of them have some weaknesses though). Moochie, as much as I hate to admit it, is a good back-up PG and one of the best when he plays under control. Even at C, we have a bright future ahead of us with Yao Ming and Cato actually played decent at times last season....imagine what he might do this season now that he has had a fire lit under his ass. However, the 2 spot troubles me big time.

    I'm sorry but having Francis back-up the 2 spot is NOT a good idea, IMO. Considering that he had the problem with plantar fascitis last season, I would really watch his minutes if I was Rudy T. I know that he probably never wants to come out, but having him play 40+ minutes every game is just gonna cause him to break down with another injury. The plus side is that he is still young, so his body *could* handle playing lots and lots of minutes; however, I would like to see Francis have a long career and have that career with the Rockets. Oscar Torres was like that proverbial saying "an enigma wrapped in a riddle" last season. I mean he looked good at times, and other times, he was buried so far on the bench that he seemed to become "close" friends with Langhi. I just don't know if Oscar is good enough to play 10 to 15 minutes every game backing up at the 2 spot. Yes, Mobley likes to play lots of minutes, but I would rather him play 36-39 minutes a game and be at the top of his game at the end of the season and *hopefully* going into the playoffs then him playing like 40-43 minutes a game.

    So, what should the Rockets do about this situation?? I think that you trade Kenny Thomas for a quality back-up 2 and a future draft pick (doesn't have to be a first rounder). Now it seems like it was heypartner or someone that knows a lot about the CBA like an aelliot that was saying that Kenny couldn't be traded until after the BYC date or something like that or maybe I'm confusing that with something else. However, that is the first option I would consider.

    Of course, CD and Rudy can try to bring in someone, free agent wise, like they did with Oscar last season and hope that this newcomer becomes the back-up and ousts Torres. However, I would rather they would try to go out and get someone who was in the league last season instead of another "Oscar".

    There are still more than 2 months left before the season starts, and I like the look of this team. However, I do hope that this concern gets addressed because it is one that I feel should not be ignored. With the rotten luck that the Rockets have had over the years with injuries, the last thing we need to do is have our 2 main scorers' minutes overloaded.
     
  2. DCkid

    DCkid Member

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    What about Voshon Lenard? He's a free agent and a deadly 3-point shooter. I think he'd be a good fit. He's averaged double digit points in 5 of his 7 NBA seasons...not too shabby.
     
  3. Sane

    Sane Member

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    I agree completely. I don't think there's any problem with trading KT. I think you're reffering to MoT, or Rashard Lewis' situation.

    My ideal scenario would be this:

    Torres developed his 3-pt shot all summer long. So he's a very good 3-pt shooter off the bench, who's athletic and can play D. He can also drive to the basket. If over the season, he improves his mid-range J, that makes him an excellent player actually.

    Then we can trade Kenny Thomas for a first rounder next year (late first round). Then we can give Memphis that pick next year and keep ours, or vice versa.

    Of course, this all depends on Torres.

    Otherwise, I'd like to pick up Mitch Richmond. Maybe trade for Bryant Stith and a draft pick? Philly might like to have KT alongside Van Horn?
     
  4. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    what about raja bell? he is one of the best defenders in the leage. and we do need perimeter D more than 3pt shooting.
     
  5. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    I think we owe Memphis our own pick, or within 2 spots of our own pick, something like that. I don't think we can trade for, say, the #25 pick and hand it to them.

    Can Nachbar play the 2? Could he be our Hedo Turkoglu (2-3-4)?
     
  6. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Lenard and Bell both seem like attractive options to me.

    ROXTXIA,

    Nachbar's size would make him a match-up nightmare for other 2's but defensively I don't know how he would fare. Besides, if he becomes our starter at the 3 (which he should with time) and Mobley is in the long-term future, I don't think it matters who plays the 2 or 3 amongst Nachbar and Mobley (Mobley has played the 3 in the past) because they will both be out there at the same time.

    Sane,

    I just don't know if Oscar is going to get any better than he is now. I hope he does, and therefore this becomes a moot point. I just wish that I could be more confident of this happening.
     
  7. DearRock

    DearRock Member

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    Althought it has been under-recognized by many and you, Tierre Brown had an excellent summer. OT also but not as good as Brown. Brown was very good at penetrating and scoring as two highly desirable skills that Francis does and the rockets want. His play justifies inclusion into the rotation both to limit Francis' minutes and allow for Francis to play at some sg. I could easily see Wink playing a total of 32-35 minutes with 6 as sg, if necessary. In addition, both Rice and Nacbar are available to play minutes at sg. I fully expect OT to be more that adequate. I have reviewed some of the game from last year and OT's outside shooting. defense. ability to fast break are all above average for our needs. If you doubt that just review the backup two guards in the west and see how many are better that OT. So this is the plan which would allow us to forget about trading KT, who you list exclusively at PF. KT must and will play at SF. there is no doubt about that. The plan for the regular season:

    Play A
    Mobley no more the 32 minutes
    OT designated as backup 12- 15 minutes

    Plan B
    If OT falters, use any combination of Wink, Rice and Nachbar as sg and play Moochie and Brown more at the point.
     
  8. The Cat

    The Cat Member

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    I'm pretty confident there won't be any noteworthy two signed this summer. Why?

    Rudy likes Moochie Norris. As much as you may complain about him dribbling too much, Moochie was very good in a starting role last season. (I believe he was 15 and 8) Now, he won't be starting this season, but obviously he has some qualities. He's got better court vision than anyone on our team. He can penetrate, and brings a lot of clutch shooting. Though it doesn't entirely excuse it, Moochie did not dribble as much in the 00-01 season, which is important because he actually had go-to options that year.

    In short, Mooch brings a lot to this team that no other player does. Rudy obviously agrees, evidenced by the deal signing him for six years. If you bring in a Lenard to play the backup two, Moochie's only going to play about 10 minutes per game (when Steve sits down). I can't see that happening.

    Steve has done a good job when he's been in there at the two. He does have a lot more freedom to score and move without the ball, and matchup problems aren't exactly a major problem. Who are the backup two guards in the West? Nick Van Exel? (he plays there for Dallas) Eric Piatkowski? Brian Shaw? Felipe Lopez? Don't tell me we need a bigger two to contain these guys defensively.

    Moochie's still going to play his 18 mpg role off the bench, and the only way for that to happen is if Steve spends some time at the two. Could we use another two? Maybe, but their role here would probably be very sporadic. They'd come in if there was an injury, or if we did need someone to match up with a bigger SG, but on a normal night I couldn't see them playing more than 6 minutes. It's not that a player like Raja Bell wouldn't accept that role, but I don't see what's wrong with just resigning Oscar for that.
     
  9. Pat

    Pat Member

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    That is a good post Cat. I think Moochie is a very good for a second string point guard.

    Regarding the dribbling issue, I seem to recall Rudy replying that the play was supposed to be the guard dribbling, while the other players developed the play, then the pass. Problem was the other players not moving, not the guard holding the ball.
     
  10. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    DearRock,

    Not trying to be a smartass here, but I have one question. If all that is true about Oscar (and I'm not saying it isn't) then why did he get buried on the bench at times??

    Cat,

    I'm just concerned that Francis and Mobley are gonna get overloaded with too many minutes and possibly break down at a crucial point in the season. Even though, I like our chances of making the playoffs, a minor injury to Francis and/or Mobley could be devestating to our playoff chances.

    I'm just curious to see the average of how many minutes played of some of the other backcourts out west that made the playoffs last season compared to those teams out west that did not.

    I guarantee you that Bibby and Christie didn't average the minutes that Francis and Mobley did, but they have a pretty strong bench in Bobby Jackson and Turkoglu....something the Rockets are lacking, IMO when it comes to their backcourt.
     
  11. 3814

    3814 Member

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    how about let Ming play a little bit of 2 when they need an outside shooter. this guys got range. He would be unstoppable being guarded by a sg from outside...it'd be just like shootaround, NO DEFENCE to stop him.
     
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Well, you could play Moochie more minutes. The Cat implicitly proposed something like this:

    Francis: 37
    Mobley: 36
    Norris: 18
    Torres: 5

    You could do this:

    Francis: 33
    Mobley: 33
    Norris: 25
    Torres: 5

    Which would give Mobley and Francis plenty of rest and still not be too taxing on Norris.
     
  13. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    That is true, Juan, and will probably be what Rudy will wind up doing; however, seeing more of the "little dribbler" is something that I do no look forward to (I don't care if that was the "play", that play sucks:) ).

    Also, I would rather see Steve play the 1 exclusively because I think that will make him even better at the point if he only had to focus on playing that spot.
     
  14. Sherlock

    Sherlock Member

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    I think Oscar hit the wall, after coming in from playing a whole season down in South America...

    Can't Tierre and Maddox play the 2?

    I'd hate to trade KT for a backup 2... we need to keep him until the season trading deadline anyway... and get someone with major potential, like he has...

    I like Redd or Miller ... they could play the 2 or 3...
     
  15. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    what about Dell Curry?
     
  16. montgo

    montgo Member

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    DCKid: I just read this thread. I had just posted a topic about Voshon!!!! What a great idea....great minds think alike :)

    I think he would be a great pick. he can shoot, will not hurt you and will fill it up occassionally as we can attest.....worth at least 1/2 the mid level if not all...this guy can shoot from the arc..40% over his career....and he is not a piggy with the ball...will pass it around....he is someone who can change the game in an instant....I hate him...I wish he played for us :)
     
  17. montgo

    montgo Member

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    I like Dell too, but he is getting up there is he not?
     
  18. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Dell may still be a great shooter whose range is about 1 step past the half court line. However, he also would be one of the few NBA players whom upon arrival to the Rockets would be univerally considered the Rockets' worst defender. Bell or Leanard would be better options. Personally, I would rather add a defensive oriented back-up SF who can play some SG if needed, even if they are offensively inept in the mold of Bruce Bowen.
     
  19. aznlincolnpark

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    hahha your post funny..... :D
     
  20. JamesC

    JamesC Member

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    I wish there was a way for the Rockets to get Jeryl Sasser from Orlando. He's the perfect backup for Cat and he's got perfect size for a sg.
     

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