Heypartner, I'm directing this question primarily to you because of your obvious knowledge of the Rockets various sets etc. Everyone else please chime in as well. I'm wondering why the Rockets don't employ a full court or half court trap more. I know that NBA ballhandlers are better than most, however, I'd like to see the Rockets trap more because of the athleticism they now have on the team. I believe they could use a 2-2-1 press with Cato under the whole and Los and Shandon on the wings and Moochie and Stevie up front. I know this could only occur in spurts during the game but I believe it would really help cause a few turnovers and disrupt the offense of many teams particularly those that play more of half court game. Let's face it, most teams don't have 2 defensive stoppers not to mention 3. Team defense is what really happens in the league because no one and I mean no one can stop any superstar player one on one. Just a thought. Give me a little feedback. ------------------
I am a big supporter of showing the press ever now and then when the opposing team isn't fresh, but don't see it as a bread and butter type thing. I would like to see the PGs put more pressure on the ballhandlers bringing it up the court. A trap ever now and then would be nice. I don't think they will work if used too much because teams will adapt, but I don't see why you wouldn't do it as a changeup. ------------------ "You've got 6 fouls, use them well" -Derrick Coleman
Heypartner, appreciate the feedback. I agree with you. I'd just like to see it mixed in during games, not be our main scheme. Verse, what makes you think a trap or press will cause mini fast breaks? Of course one of the pitfalls is that the defense can beat and the offense gets a layup or dunk. That's the price you pay. My point was only to mix up the defense the Rockets employ for the lack of defensive stoppers on the team. It's nothing wrong with throwing a wrinkle at teams to give them something else to scout. Teams have successfully taken the ball out of Stevie's hand during game by trapping him on the wings and I would like to see that happen more with teams with explosive guards just to disrupt a bit. I have always been a believer that teams that press or trap don't like to be trapped. Just a thought. ------------------
It is unfortunate that the Rockets don't have more than one average to above average defensive player. Keeping that one player in the backcourt to potentially get burned (and tired) will definitely lead to easy buckets. The trap is just plain fun to watch though. ------------------ I've posted so much that what I say must be true. The latest on Maurice Taylor
Francis and Mobley may not be great defenders, but I think they would be *more* useful in a press, as speed and quickness are such important factors in trapping the ball handler. In fact, I would think that this could be a *very* effective weapon if it was used sparingly. Since: You're bringing back bad memories... I remember Houston points getting trapped in the wings for years now ... btw, why *has* that been a larger problem for Houston than most teams? I watch the Celtics alot... and they're probably not as good... but they've always been much better agaist traps and presses. I know that our PG's haven't always been stellar, but we've had great secondary ball handlers in Clyde and (ugh) Pippen.... and this last year we had Francis.... HP? ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001. [This message has been edited by haven (edited August 29, 2000).]
Coming out of last year's training camp, Hakeem, Big Sexy, and The Wiz were starters who were incapable of running a trap. Steve was also a rookie 1, who had more important things than trapping to learn in training camp. With injuries by midseason, the Rocks were starting younger and quicker players at the 4 and 5 (Kenny and Kelvin) who could run the trap, but like Steve they did not have NBA experience so there were certainly better things to work on than trapping. Starting with this year's training camp, Kelvin, Kenny, and Steve now have a year of NBA experience and should be able to start working on traps. I will take the contrarian opinion that traps are an excellent option to have. Traps in general are an excellent change of pace which may take even good team several tries to break. Even if the trap does not cause a turnover, it usually will take the opposing team out of its offense or at least cut time off of the 24 second clock, which may cause the opposing team to rush their offense set and take a worst shot than normal. A good time to run a trap would be say on a road game, when the team is sluggish and have a double digit deficit at half time. At the start of the third period, a trap at the beginning of the third period could change the momentum and put the opposing team on their heals. Traps run for an extended period are an entirely different matter. Opposing teams will know its coming and will not be surprised by it. And by the time you get to the playoffs, the better teams will use you if you trap, since they will have extra time to prepare for it. ------------------
No Worries: I'd hardly that call that contrary... I think most of us agree with you . I just wonder why the Rockets always have so much trouble breaking presses and traps, even when they have good ball handlers. ------------------ Shandon Anderson rocks. The lottery sucks. Playoffs 2001.
Maurice is not a terrible defender, but he is not stellar either. I am expecting the coaching staff already knows this and will be able to address problem areas quickly. We will see what Larry Smith can do with him. ------------------ There is a very fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."
No Worries, I agree with you regarding Dream and other players who would not be suited for a trapping defense. Actuall Dream would have been under the hole if the trap was broken, therefore he would not need to run the floor or be as active as the guys on the wings. I don't think it would require any teaching Stevie or any of the other players how to trap. The guys in the league have known how to press since high school and have certainly been exposed to it in college. My ideal time to use a trap would be when the Rudy is mixing in his second unit with some of the starters. Certain guys, ie. Shandon, Los, Moochie, Stevie,and Cato or any mix of a couple of other players would be successfull for brief stints. Since we are really an uptempo team now, it seems logical that we would up tempo our defense as well if possible. ------------------
heypartner: ok. i think i see what you're saying. IOW, if you can't make the pg stop his dribble, you're toast. agreed. you know, if you've got a tall pg (not david rivers, he just had a tall fro), then he can pass over the "approaching" defender(s), thus creating the mini fast break. either way, though, whether the pg can split or pass over, the "d" is toast. as for playing the passing lanes (you tug at my heart strings ), that can be nullified if the offense does just a few things: 1. send 2 players (whoever's man abandoned him + either the sg/sf) aggressively back towards the ball &/or 2. cut cross-court, as opposed to vertically. the passing lanes, in a full court set, are played vertically (i mean the long way up the court). if you send men cutting cross-court/diagonally in a full court set, it's harder for the defense to react, nevermind fighting thru the screens to free men up. Since75: as for the mini-fast break, see the above 2nd paragraph. as for mixing things up, yea i believe in throwing different looks at your opponent, but not a trap/press (unless we're talking about a team with 1s, 2s & 3s who can't handle the ball). that said, if you have a pg who is obliterating your team, which steve can do...i still am not a fan of the trap. i'd rather have (if i'm playing against the rockets) steve francis go off for 55 points and 2 assists than have him go off for 25 points and 20 assists. steve was frequently trapped on the wings last year, you're right. so the way to alleviate that problem is to shift slightly to the center of the court. most 1/2 court traps are designed to jump on the guard s soon as he hits the sidelines. the sideline becomes a 3rd defender, in essence. that way, steve (or whoever) doesn't have the option of backpedaling and passing over the defenders to the open man. man, i just had tryouts yesterday (and 2nite as well). there are so many times when people try to trap in the backcourt it's ridiculous. and 5 out of 6 times, we get a good shot off. all you have to do (and you can do it damn near with your eyes closed) is back up a step and throw it where the defense came from. ------------------ miles ahead of the rest
I like traps and pressing D. Problem last year was the never ending injury parade. It's hard to teach team trap principles to 36 different starting line ups. We need to remember, a press is not only successful if you steal the ball but a big plus when you take time off of the clock for a halfcourt oriented team. If we think the Rocks can run and gun, then there's no reason they can't learn to search and "D"estroy! ------------------ GATER
The full court press does not work in the NBA. As for half court traps, you must target a weak ballhandler to trap or else you will get burned. Most players in the NBA have dealt with presses andf traps in high school and college. Just look at Rick Pitino's teams (Knicks, Celtics) to see that a pressing defense does not work. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
In general i love press, traps, full crt 3/4 crt or half crt they are great but I sort of agree with Bob, that full court zone press' have limited effect in the NBA. However i was watching one game 76ers @ Knicks (think it was just after the trade deadline on NBC) and the Sixers had a great trap that was terrorising the big knicks back court of Spree and Allan Houston and then even work with childs playing the point. All they were really doing was coming across (not up) and double-teaming the ball handler and then the weak side wing defender was coming up the line to guard the the double-teamer's player and then the remaining player was floating in the middle of the key, hedging between the two remining offensive players. It worked a treat. The element of surprise appears to be key, along with picking who you trap. So maybe full court press won't work, but i think traps that are based on the defense reading the situation, thinking and executing are perfect to cause some occasional carnage in the NBA. SMeg of Traps ------------------ Discombobulation Imminent
Spree, Houston and Childs are not good ball handlers. The Knicks have been trying to trade Childs for years because he is a terrible point man (and has a big fat contract) So, yes, traps a nd presses will work against the Knicks, until they get a real point guard. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
yes bob, but i was using that as an example of some trapping concepts that will work in the nba, that is makes reads and make them based on situation, that is obviously you can't trap everyone. ------------------ Discombobulation Imminent
The Rockets struggle enough with a straight man to man defense. How many times last year did they not double team the hot shooter and it cost them the game? To ask Francis and Mobley to start pressing and trapping when they cannot even grasp the basic concept of defense is asking an awful lot. Until they become comfortable with switching and defending pick and rolls and other basic defenses, I would avoid asking them to make reads in traps and presses. They were terrible as it was last year, this would make them look even worse. ------------------ In order to be a success in life, you need 2 things: 1. Don't tell everything you know.
Bob, I agree i was more arguing that traps can work in the NBA, not that the rockets should use them. In relation to the rockets they need to play Team Defense rather than the ancient 5x 1on1 that Rudy has them playing. In Rudy's scheme their is no denial, no split line, no help, no double teaming of hot players. Don't get me started on the rockets D bob. You know how i feel about the rockets Defense it is terrible and maybe this was cause ruddy focussed on the new offense with the loss of bark and dream and forgot about Defense (it's the only reason i can consider). I have great respect for Rudy but if he doesn't put a better defensive scheme and concepts in place he should get the arse. Smeg ------------------ Discombobulation Imminent [This message has been edited by SmeggySmeg (edited August 29, 2000).]
BobFinn* You are 100% correct - the Rocks need to play pick and roll D looooonnnng before they get into pressing. IMHO, there still are some teams we can man-to-man full court to take seconds off the shot clock. ------------------ GATER [This message has been edited by GATER (edited August 29, 2000).]
Wow, a defense thread. Hey Since, I appreciate it. I'm not sure how much there is to address here other than offering speculation. Our defense simply showed no clear strategy last year. We seemed only to discuss who to double and who not to. In fairness to the coach, injuries hurt our defense a lot. Pressing, or just the half court trap, I love too. But injuries make aggressive defense even more difficult. I do believe to a certain extent these are gimmicks. Chicago used to use traps in flurries while their fast break was clicking. After a fast break, you are pretty much already in a full-court press position. You know though, Jordan and Pippen were arguably the best half-court trappers ever. Laying out a strong-side zone strategy is much more cutting-edge in the NBA, given the new rules. This also suits Cato and Dream, well. We never showed a strong-side zone last year that I saw. That bothered me more than not trapping. I'll say one last thing about pressing in the NBA. Presses are beaten off the dribble, unlike college where you try to pass through them. Our press will likely get beaten off the dribble without superior guard/SF defense? IMO, it is better we focus on zone defense that make Cato/Dream more effective.