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West Turns Blind Eye as Police Put Saddam Era Torturers Back to Work

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by wnes, Aug 7, 2005.

  1. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    [After seeing reports like this, I begin to think U.S. may indeed need to stay there a little longer to train the Iraqis to get their acts together.]

    West turns blind eye as police put Saddam's torturers back to work

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,7374-1683578,00.html

    From James Hider in Baghdad

    IRAQI security forces, set up by American and British troops, torture detainees by pulling out their fingernails, burning them with hot irons or giving them electric shocks, Iraqi officials say. Cases have also been recorded of bound prisoners being beaten to death by police.

    In their haste to put police on the streets to counter the brutal insurgency, Iraqi and US authorities have enlisted men trained under Saddam Hussein’s regime and versed in torture and abuse, the officials told The Times. They said that recruits were also being drawn from the ranks of outlawed Shia militias.

    Counter-insurgencies are rarely clean fights, but Iraq’s dirty war is being waged under the noses of US and British troops whose mission is to end the abuses of the former dictatorship. Instead, they appear to have turned a blind eye to the constant reports of torture from Iraq’s prisons.

    Among the worst offenders cited are the Interior Ministry police commandos, a force made up largely of former army officers and special forces soldiers drawn from the ranks of Saddam’s dissolved army. They are seen as the most effective tool the coalition has in fighting the insurgency.

    “It’s a gruesome situation we are in,” a senior Iraqi official said. “You have to understand the situation when the special commandos were formed last August. They were taking on an awful lot of people in a great hurry. Many of them were people who served in Saddam’s forces . . . The choice of taking them on was a difficult one. There was no supervision. There still really isn ’t any, and that applies to all the security forces. They’re all doing this.”

    “This”, said Saad Sultan, the Human Rights Ministry official in charge of monitoring Iraq’s prisons, includes random arrests, sometimes without a warrant, hanging people from ceilings and beating them, attaching electrodes to ears, hands, feet and genitals, and holding hot irons to flesh.

    Four of his 22 monitors have already quit their jobs, leaving a handful of lawyers to inspect scores of prisons.

    “Two months ago I could go into a prison and more than 50 per cent of the people had been ill-treated,” Mr Sultan said. Six months ago the situation had been even worse.

    Reports of torture and abuse are commonplace. Omar, a 22-year-old student, said that he was picked up in a night raid on his home in Baghdad by police commandos, who dragged him away from his family to a detention facility. No one told him where he was or what he was accused of, he said. As he was marched into prison, policemen lined up to beat him and his fellow detainees. The prisoners’ handcuffs were tightened until the men screamed.

    The next day, he and his neighbour were blindfolded and transported to another facility, where his neighbour collapsed unconscious during a beating. He was then led into an interrogation room, where a policeman attached electrodes to his thumbs and toes. “I immediately asked what they wanted and he said something like, ‘You have been targeting police and national guardsmen’. Without waiting for my response, he switched on the electricity, then kept on turning it off and on until I could hardly breathe.

    “I screamed under torture,” Omar said. “It’s not a place to prove your courage. These guys are trying to kill you for nothing.” He was released without charge after 12 days.

    The abuse has not gone unnoticed by the coalition, but little has been done to address it. A US State Department report in February stated that Iraqi authorities had been accused of “arbitrary deprivation of life, torture, impunity, poor prison conditions — particularly in pre-trial detention facilities — and arbitrary arrest and detention.” A Human Rights Watch report also noted that “unlawful arrest, long-term incommunicado detention, torture and other ill-treatment of detainees (including children) by Iraqi authorities have become routine and commonplace”.

    Evidence of extra-judicial killings by the security forces has also come to light. Mr Sultan is investigating the case of three members of the Badr Corps, the paramilitary wing of one of the main Shia parties in government, who were arrested by police, handcuffed and beaten to death.

    An Iraqi official said that the Iraqi National Guard, the US-trained paramilitary police, regularly disposed of the corpses of its victims by throwing them in the river. “The problem is that some people have still got that training from the past,” he said. “You have ten or twelve of them in the same unit working, and if they seize terrorists they will torture or kill them.”

    He added that while the de facto death squads were not part of government policy, little was being done to counteract them. “These are exceptional times. It’s an emergency.”

    General Adnan Thabet, the commandos’ commander and a special adviser to the Interior Minister, was a senior officer under Saddam. He was sentenced to death for plotting against the former dictator and was tortured after his sentence was commuted.

    He denied any allegation of torture, but admitted: “This is a dirty war. We are the only ones with the nerves to fight it.”
     
  2. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    oh brother. wnes has the "thread starting bug" again... yippee
     
  3. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    oh boy bigtexxx has the "can't make substantive argument bug again so will try to divert attention from the issues and topics being discussed" again... yippee
     
  4. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Hey texxx, U.S. has some pretty good economy news lately. I was expecting your "economy is hitting on all cylinders" thread. You must be disheartened by Bush's new low rating. Feel sorry for ya, kinda.
     
  5. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    LOL. We've rehashed this argument a million times. Wnes or some other leftie posts something bad about the troops, then claims that all the troops are bad. Umm, right.
     
  6. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    LOL. It's the Clintonistas who were overly concerned about poll numbers. You're clearly confused.
     
  7. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Not one person on this board has ever claimed that all the troops are bad.

    It has never happened.

    Furthermore, this has to do with torturing people. You don't have anything of substance to add to the argument, so it appears you are trying to deflect from the argument. It is tactic that is transparent, and does little to bolster your side.
     
  8. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    That's interesting. What do you think why Bush made a prime time speech on Iraq situation on 6/28/2005? Dubya has an aversion to public speech, ya know.
     
  9. thacabbage

    thacabbage Contributing Member

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    I really don't see why you and your brother have such a big problem with this. If you don't like it, debate it, don't derail the thread with some smart ass comment. Noone is stopping you from starting pro-war threads.
     
  10. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    What was the point of taking out saddam?
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    Well, there's the blind eye wnes mentioned in the thread title.

    When debating in a forum like this, it helps to be literate, by the way. Please find where in this thread wnes claimed that all the troops are bad.
     
  12. bigtexxx

    bigtexxx Member

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    Please find me all the references that wnes (or any leftie, for that matter, except for BJ's forced praise...) has made to positive actions by our troops. Thanks in advance.
     
  13. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    OK I can only speak for myself, not for other "lefties".

    If I precede every post "criticizing" troops with one praising them, will that satisfy you? Let me tell you, even if you were (and not resorting to second guessing me), I wouldn't be happy, because that would make me a hypocrit -- and I don't like that. I am telling like I see (read) it. When I see good things happen which are noteworthy, I will have no hesitation to post it.
     
  14. Major

    Major Member

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    Why ?
     
  15. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. FranchiseBlade

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    I posted a topic about the U.S. run prison in Iraq by someone called the Angel of the Desert. It was run well and she reported a marine she saw kicking a prisoner, and was a very positive story.

    I have posted several times about the brave soldier who blew the whistle on the wrongdoings at AG prison.

    I have posted several times about how what a great job most of the soldiers are doing.

    I referenced the bravery of the soldiers in a fighting kentuckyian unit.
     
  17. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    Yep, this the moral of the story.

    WMD: none
    Links to 9/11: none
    Cruelty towards his own people: yeah, but what's now?
     
  18. Dubious

    Dubious Member

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    Hey we gave it our best shot, tried to do the right thing, but the people didn't buy in to it. You can't force people to support democracy, you can only give them a chance to choose. You wanna be selfish self interested factions that won't work together to secure a better life for your children, so be it.

    We'll be going now.
     
  19. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    so why all of the sudden this admin is planning troop pullout when its very clear that Iraq is not ready yet..
     
  20. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    2006 Congressional Elections
     

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