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Well Lookie here! Book Alleges Secret Iraq War Plan

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by mc mark, Apr 16, 2004.

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  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Can't wait until next week!



    By CALVIN WOODWARD and SIOBHAN McDONOUGH, Associated Press Writers

    WASHINGTON - President Bush secretly ordered a war plan drawn up against Iraq less than two months after U.S. forces attacked Afghanistan and was so worried the decision would cause a furor he did not tell everyone on his national security team, says a new book on his Iraq policy.

    Bush feared that if news got out about the Iraq plan as U.S. forces were fighting another conflict, people would think he was too eager for war, journalist Bob Woodward writes in "Plan of Attack," a behind-the-scenes account of the 16 months leading to the Iraq invasion.

    The Associated Press obtained a copy of the book, which will be available in book stores next week.

    "I knew what would happen if people thought we were developing a potential war plan for Iraq," Bush is quoted as telling Woodward. "It was such a high-stakes moment and ... it would look like that I was anxious to go to war. And I'm not anxious to go to war."

    ----

    Woodward's account fleshes out the degree to which some members of the administration, particularly Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites), were focused on Saddam Hussein (news - web sites) from the onset of Bush's presidency and even after the terrorist attacks made the destruction of al-Qaida the top priority.

    Woodward says Bush pulled Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld aside Nov. 21, 2001 — when U.S. forces and allies were in control of about half of Afghanistan — and asked him what kind of war plan he had on Iraq. When Rumsfeld said it was outdated, Bush told him to get started on a fresh one.

    The book says Bush told Rumsfeld to keep quiet about it and when the defense secretary asked to bring CIA (news - web sites) Director George Tenet into the planning at some point, the president said not to do so yet.

    Even Bush's national security adviser, Condoleezza Rice (news - web sites), was apparently not fully briefed. Woodward said Bush told her that morning he was having Rumsfeld work on Iraq but did not give details.


    more...

    http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm.../20040416/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_woodward_book_3
     
    #1 mc mark, Apr 16, 2004
  2. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    Why does President Bush hate America so much?:D
     
    #2 RocketMan Tex, Apr 16, 2004
  3. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    What's the issue? Not only do I not see any revelations here, there's nothing of import.
     
    #3 Cohen, Apr 16, 2004
  4. SWTsig

    SWTsig Member

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    perhaps there's something of export???




    that was lame, i apologize.
     
    #4 SWTsig, Apr 16, 2004
  5. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    I thought good leaders looked for reasons *not* to go to war...
     
    #5 GreenVegan76, Apr 16, 2004
  6. basso

    basso Member
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    "... And I'm not anxious to go to war."
     
    #6 basso, Apr 16, 2004
  7. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Member

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    as the country is already split, anti-war people will continue to be pissed, and pro-war people will still support the war, no matter what happens. Seriously, if one was against the war, I really don't see anything that would convince them to change their mind, even if this war plan has a message in crayon saying, "make lies up to trick americens to suport war in Iraq!!! make daddy proud!"
     
    #7 nyquil82, Apr 16, 2004
  8. Major

    Major Member

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    What's the issue? Not only do I not see any revelations here, there's nothing of import.

    If you're beginning to plan a strategy for invading Iraq, would you not want the head of your intelligency agency to contribute input?

    When you look back and see that:

    (1) The CIA expected this type of uprising

    (2) The Pentagon admitted that they made mistakes in terms of preparation for post-war Iraq

    This squarely connects the communication problem to White House leadership.
     
    #8 Major, Apr 16, 2004
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    as the country is already split, anti-war people will continue to be pissed, and pro-war people will still support the war, no matter what happens.

    Given this:

    <I>All in all, do you think it was worth going to war in Iraq, or not?</I>

    <img src=http://media.gallup.com/POLL/Releases/pr040409ii.gif>

    I think it's pretty clear that views change. At least one-quarter of Americans have changed their mind on this issue in the last year.
     
    #9 Major, Apr 16, 2004
  10. nyquil82

    nyquil82 Member

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    touche. if that's true, i really have to start thinking outside of the D&D. i guess the guys who are more likely to change their minds are more likely to not be vocal about it.
     
    #10 nyquil82, Apr 16, 2004
  11. glynch

    glynch Member

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    They believe that Dubya lied to them for their own good. Everyone knows daddy has to tell some white lies for the good of his children occasionally.

    Remember all those months he was supposedly weighing the facts?


    This is of great import, but I do agree it is not new in that it is pretty settled that Bush wanted to go to war, wmd or no wmd, threat or no threat, lies or no lies.
     
    #11 glynch, Apr 16, 2004
  12. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    A quarter? Wow, I didn't realize it was that high. That's the best news I've heard in a while.
     
    #12 GreenVegan76, Apr 16, 2004
  13. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    Not really.

    If they never had any say in the planning, then it's a clear mistake. To not be involved just at the start means nothing.
     
    #13 Cohen, Apr 16, 2004
  14. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Cohen all the way up, even until jr gave his "final" 48 hour warning to Saddam, we were inundated with "I've not made up my mind" about launching an invasion of Iraq.

    Now we find out that not two months into Afghanistan jr secretly wants Rumsfeld to devise a war plan for Iraq?

    Doesn't that strike you as a bit disingenuous?
     
    #14 mc mark, Apr 16, 2004
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2004
  15. Major

    Major Member

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    Not really.

    If they never had any say in the planning, then it's a clear mistake. To not be involved just at the start means nothing.


    I disagree. If you build a warplan, you want as much information from the start. Otherwise, you're going to come up with a plan and then adjust for the added info with your model as the basis - which is just terrible planning because you're likely going to get a convoluted plan (not always, but far more likely).

    We obviously can't say for sure that this indicates the plan itself was bad - they may have accounted for the CIA warnings properly and such - but all evidence is to the contrary, and this is just more of it. If we know the methodology was bad and the results were also bad, that's not a positive for the administration.
     
    #15 Major, Apr 16, 2004
  16. Rockets10

    Rockets10 Member

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    What I find most telling in the Woodward preview is the commentary about General Franks and how he was pissed off about having to draw up a war plan for Iraq while he was in the middle of fighting the Taliban in Afghanistan. That just shows everyone quite clearly how the Iraq conflict diverted needed attention and resources away from Afghanistan at the wrong time. :(
     
    #16 Rockets10, Apr 16, 2004
  17. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    excellent point Rockets10
     
    #17 mc mark, Apr 16, 2004
  18. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    I bet that 25 percent would become 100 percent if the media reported all the bodybags coming home.

    [​IMG]
     
    #18 GreenVegan76, Apr 16, 2004
  19. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    If the potential political fallout by including too many folks at the start is unacceptable and avoidable, it would be quite logical to include their input later and modify the plan accordingly. It is very logical.


    The damning issue would be whether good intel/advice were ignored beginning, middle, and or end. IMHO, I think the neocons have an antiquated world-view that is unrealistic, and it was unrealistic even back when it was in vogue. Superior military might cannot resolve all problems; you cannot defeat a 'cause' by defeating a government.

    And Bush's decision to support Sharon's policies, and especially at this point in time, further illuminates his ineptitude.
     
    #19 Cohen, Apr 16, 2004
  20. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    Yes. That is a good point.
     
    #20 Cohen, Apr 16, 2004
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