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Well, I Guess It Is a Good Thing That I Won't Be a Father Any Time Soon...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Manny Ramirez, Jul 27, 2003.

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  1. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Friday night I got a Cocker Spaniel puppy that is fixing to be 8 weeks old (he will be 8 weeks old on Monday). I named him Jake and he is a black and white parti mix just like my parents' dog, Rex (who is 7 years old).

    I had been eagerly anticipating the day that I would get to bring Jake home and I have even taken this whole next week off from work to be with him. I had been reading dog books and picking my parents' brain on what it would be like at first.

    Friday night I tried to get Jake to go to sleep in his little crate around 11:30, but he couldn't settle down. As soon as I left, he started crying. Being a sap and a sensitive sort, I eventually let him out and had him sleep on my chest on the couch. I tried again to put him in his crate around 2:30 in the morning, but once again, he did not like it. Finally, I just went to bed and tried to ignore his cries (which sounded heartbreaking). He cried for 45 minutes non-stop! He finally stopped and I got like an hour of sleep. Around 5:15, he woke me up with his crying and I noticed that he had taken a huge dump in the back of his crate.:(

    Last night, I changed things. I moved his crate to my bedroom. I actually got down on the floor and slept right next to the door of his crate. I tried to make his crate smaller (he is very tiny right now!) and I kept a bathroom light on. All of this helped immensely, as he had a much better night of sleep. I was also able to hear him right away when he needed to go out and use the bathroom. Around 1, I heard him whimpering and I picked him up, went outside, and he did his business (I praised him for doing that to no end). Unfortunately, I have wooden floors, and I didn't get much sleep last night but it was more than the night before.:(

    Fortunately, my parents have said that they would help me take care of him. My father is actually going to look after him, at first, while I am at work (which that will resume on the 4th of August).

    I love dogs as much as any other dog lover, and there is nothing more in the world that I want than a long lasting relationship with this wonderful animal....just like the one my parents have with Rex. However, I feel like these last 2 days are about to kill me, and I have serious doubts if I can be the owner that Jake needs me to be. I guess I could not care and let him **** wherever he wants and not pay him much attention, but then why in the hell would have I gotten him? That is definitely not how I want to do things.

    So, for now, unless I am at work, I have no idea what my life will be like as I will be learning some great responsibility here. I do know that things will get easier and better, but I would be lying if I didn't say that I have some doubt that this was a good idea.:(

    According to one book, until they get to be 4 months old, they need a constant eye on them at all times. If I can get through this to the 4 month period (that will be around October), then things get a lot better. However, I hope that I am still alive by that point!:)

    If anyone can give me hints or suggestions or stories about how they got through the first 4 months of their dog's life, I would be greatly appreciative.
     
  2. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    You just brought back some hellish memories of when I got my two Rhodesian Ridgeback puppies back in in Sept. 98 . They were about the same age of 8 weeks. I bought one big crate initially for their home and put them in there together. I got two puppies because I thought one would be bored easily and not have a companion. To this day, I'm still glad I got two instead of one. It's been a little more work but I believe having two has been a much more pleasant experience from each dog's perspective.

    So, anyway...I get them home and those first few days to few weeks when they have to literally go to the bathroom every 3 or 4 hours was a nightmare. I then realized I was not just raising animals...I was a freaking Dad. I never got a full night's sleep for those first few months or so as I always had to get up and let them out to let them outside to "do it". When I would go to work, I tried closing off the kitchen and these little shiyats would run around chewing on anything in site. I used little scented pads for them to go to the bathroom on. They would do their business on them and then chew them up. What a mess! One time...one of the pups did diarreah all over the kitchen and crate...that was fun.

    So, I would come from work for lunch to let them out. Otherwise, they would be in the single crate. I then hired a pet sitter to come in twice a day to them outside for a little while. These pups grew pretty fast so I ended up buying a second crate as Ridgebacks get large and one crate wasn't going to do it. So, they would be in side-by-side crates hanging out during the day with their bones and toys(spoiled rotten). Raising dogs is not a light experience and requires parental responsibility.

    Eventually, I was able to let them out of their crates. They chewed some stuff up during their teething process but nothing really significant. They were cute as hell puppies but I was glad that was over. Then, they took over the sofa and my bed. Not to mention all the work involved to keep a clean house with house dogs. Yikes!!!

    I almost gave them up after the first few weeks but the breeder wouldn't take them back. That's how badly they were driving me up a wall. I think I actually cried once it felt so bad and was such a change to my life those first few weeks.

    But, I did endure and here we are about 5 years later. We're still kicking it! So, hang in there. If your not around a lot, then maybe a pet sitter might come in handy. It did for me. I've pretty much seen it all when it comes to raising dogs from puppyhood.

    Surf
     
  3. Drewdog

    Drewdog Member

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    Manny-

    You just brought up the exact reasons why I dont want a dog until I get married:

    Too much responsibility.
    Not enough time.
    Too big of a commitment.

    Ironically, those are the same reasons I dont have a girlfriend either.... :D

    Hope things get better man. Why didnt you get an older dog from the pound or something. Alot of those dudes are housetrained.
     
    #3 Drewdog, Jul 27, 2003
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2003
  4. JPM0016

    JPM0016 Member

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    having 2 puppies is usually better. It keeps them occupied with each other. A few years ago my dad's dog gave birth to six puppies. We didn't have any problems with them at all. When they got to 6 weeks he put them outside and they were fine. Someone though never took them to the vet to get their shots and they all died at 10 weeks old with parvo.

    My dog which is a dalmation was basically alone except for a cat. She would go crazy, she wouldn't sleep, just spent all her time chewing everything up and crying. So, we shipped her off to "Man's Best Friend" for 2 weeks and 700 dollars later she seemed to be a lot calmer.
     
  5. Manny Ramirez

    Manny Ramirez The Music Man

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    Surf,

    Thanks for sharing that story. My father, who is retired, has volunteered to look after Jake while I am at work. Because if he hadn't, then I would have never done this because like Drew said, I really don't have time.

    I think my old man feels that within a couple of months, Jake will be okay enough to be left by himself in my house all day with some periodic checking (Surf, I take it this is what you do with your Ridgebacks).

    The thought has come across my mind that maybe I should try to take him back, but I feel this is a test and it is one that I have to take. All my life I have tended to shirk away from things that I felt were too hard on me whether it was in school, relationships, etc. The natural inclination is to give up because I now know, firsthand, how hard this is going to be.

    Yet, I look at Rex (my parents' cocker) and see what a loyal and smart dog he is and I long for that same relationship with Jake. That desire is what and has to drive me to succeed. I am going to give this my best shot.

    On why getting them at 7 weeks compared to older:

    I have thought that maybe I made a mistake in getting Jake that young; however, nothing is more rewarding than to see a puppy that only weighs like 2 pounds become a full-grown dog. If you get one that is already a year old, you don't know what all bad habits it has picked up and you miss one of the greatest joys, I feel, in owning a dog....seeing it mature from puppy to adult.
     
  6. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    I think the first few weeks are the worst part. You need to adapt to this new lifestyle. I enjoyed the puppyhood experience and would not do it differently(as in get an older dog or dogs) now. Their just so precious at that young age...the little shiyat(s). You miss alot if you miss puppyhood. It all seems kind of a blur now. Just watching little one(s) run around with the energy of new life...makes me a little verklempt. I'm a little verklempt! Talk amongst yourselves..I'll give you a topic: Rhode Island, it's not a road, nor an island...discuss! :D
     
  7. bamaslammer

    bamaslammer Member

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    Those first weeks are hell. My pekinese would piss on the floor a centimeter from the paper and I swear she did it on purpose! She would whine and keep us up at night when she was in our kitchen. In fact, I'd say my two kids were easier as babies than a new puppy. Manny, just hang in there bud. It will end and you will eventually look back on this time fondly. :D
     
  8. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    MannyRa:

    I'm not familiar with Cockers as a breed but have had dogs all my life and can offer this advice. Disclaimer though, I have raised Shetland Sheep dogs and they are smart as hell, so you may have more frustrationand may need more patience.

    Housebreaking:

    Golden rule. Take your pup out constantly. They have tiny bladders and need to go all the time. Sometimes, they won't need to go. No problem. You can't talk them into it. Just take him out often. It minimizes the times he goes in the house.

    Key trick: feed him his morning meal and then immediately take him out. If possible, feed him first thing in the morning, before letting him out to pee/poo. That helps get the results you want. The food puts pressure on the bladder and they need to go. My current dog, Riley :) , housebroke in 3 days because he associated going out with doing his business. The reason it's nice to be around most of the day when they are pups is because you can catch them in the act when they pee/poo inside. You can correct them by scolding them and taking them inside. But believe me, the positive reinforcement of taking them outside frequently and praising them is the most effective way to get the message across. Also, be sure to time your praise with the minute that they "strike the pose" for doing their business. continue to praise them until they're done.

    Getting your dog thru the night:

    Get an old 2 liter bottle, fill it with hot water, and put it in his kennel. Make sure he isn't chewing on it. If not, it should help. It will remind him of being hear his mother. You might want to wrap it in one of your Tshirts that you have recently worn. Again, make sure he isn't chewing it b/c that might teach him he can chew your clothes. The odor of your shirt may comfort him. Also, i've heard that a ticking clock on top or near his crate may be soothing.

    Obedience training:

    1. establishing that you're the alpha male (leader of the pack). Most dogs just want to know where they are in the pack, and it's easiest for you if you're the Alpha male. In the wild, one of the most significant signs of the Alpha male is that he can "pin" the other dogs, sorta showing them up. It doesn't hurt them, it just shows dominance. If you catch your pup doing something you don't want him to do, like chewing on furniture or a door, don't hit him. Never, ever hit a dog. It kills the trust. What you should do is firmly grasp the fur on either side of the face, below the ears. Hold him in place while you lower your face down to his, slowly. At the same time, you should tell him "no" with a negative, but even tone. As you get to his face, you should then start "pinning" him by gently, but firmly pulling his head/neck down toward the ground, while keeping him facing you. His body will follow and he will eventually lay down. Then you keep hold of his face, hover above him for a few seconds, still telling him no. Then let go and that's it. If he's dominant, he may resist or yelp briefly. if he is doing that, stop pulling down, but keep a firm grip and a firm "no" he will stop fairly soon, as your face is just above his. it may sound mean, but it's not. It's well accepted pack theory and helps him know his role and I think it makes him want to please you.

    2. most obedience training books give sound advice about sit, stay, down. The hardest is heel. All I can say is that you keep the initial training sessions brief, 10-15 mins. Heel takes a lot of work, but is the most gratifying as you go for a walk and he just walks happily beside you. The most pitiful sight is when a dog is walking the master.

    3. other tips: establish precedent now, or you're done. if you don't wnat him on the furniture, don't start letting him now. You'll be sending mixed messages and he'll wind up getting scolded for no reason (at least to him). Same with human food. I'd advise never giving him any. If you do, he'll learn to beg at the table. I generally advise being strict. It makes the dog's life easier b/c he won't be tempted to act in a way to get scolded later in life.

    Finally, dogs are far better than many human beings because they give unconditional love and are loyal as can be. Treat your dog as you would your child. I do and Riley is one of the best behaved and happiest dogs in the neighborhood.
     
  9. LeGrouper

    LeGrouper Member

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    My pug sleeps in the bed with me. She is a good dog and never goes in the house. All the time and dedication I spend on my dog is rewarded back to me with her loyalty and affection. Sometimes it is hard when you have to work but I think it is worth it. My dog is the one person who never holds a grudge against me and who is always happy to see me.
     
  10. Matador

    Matador Member

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    I went throught the same things with my dog when she was a puppy. It lasted for about only a couple of weeks. It sucks at first but what is losing a few nights sleep compared to having a great dog for next 12 years.

    You sound like you are doing a good job making the crate size smaller. Just make sure your dog goes out every 3 or 4 hours because puppies can't hold it long. Also I don't think it necessary to actually sleep on the floor witht the dog. As long as you are in the room with him I would think it would be fine. Dogs are pack animals you know and just him knowing you are there should be enough.

    Make sure to be socializing your dog alot at this stage after it has recieved all its immunizations. Get it used to hearing sounds like the vacuum cleaner and riding in the car.

    I'm sure you know all this by reading you dog books, but keep up the work and I'm sure you will be greatly rewarded with a great friend.
     
  11. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    You mean, one of these?

    [​IMG]

    I raised him from 6 weeks old..I was fortunate in that he never really tore up panything in the house( I had him lots of chewtoys) and unless you stay up all night and let them out constantly..you are going to have accidents. Thats a fact of life when raising pups. Just learn how to deal with it, and keep lots of paper down where he sleeps.

    Good luck Manny...it will all be worht it in the end.
     
  12. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    Rockets2K. Great dogs, shelties are, eh? I think Riley has a 30 word vocabulary, the smartest of the shelties my family has had. Does the whole hand signals thing.

    Shocking thing about Riley, he doesn't bark like most shelties. My wife scolded him once when he was yapping as a puppy. Now, he only barks when seriously excited or when he percieves danger. Otherwise, he expresses himself by licking, nudging with the nose or paw.

    I'd post a picture, but don't know how. Sable with trim and a perfect white collar and white chest.
     
  13. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    They are great house dogs....this is our second one..our first one was a tri-color that was possibly the smartest dog I have ever seen or owned (and I have had dogs all my life).

    This one is not near as smart..and he still has a tendency to go nuts when someone is pulling out aluminum foil or when Im running the water line to topoff my aquariums...he used to chase shadows also.
    We suspect that the breeders had inbred his line too far. But he can do 6 or 7 tricks, obeys me without hesitation and is possibly the most loving dog ever..so I can overlook his flaws.

    Even though he has all his papers and his bloodline has champions..we dont ever plan on breeding him because of the breeder's mistakes.
     
  14. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Manny, I've trained English Springer Spaniels since I was 15 years old. Cocker Spaniels were "bred out" of Springers so I think my hints will apply.

    First, never, ever spank or threaten Jake with anything (like a rolled up newspaper). Dogs do not understand that as correction but it creates fear and nervousness.

    When you want to discipline Jake, roll him over on his back, grab him firmly (without chocking) by the throat hairs, get in his face and growl "no" like you mean it. Stay over him and in his face for about one minute growling "no" all the while. Then let him loose and ignore him.

    When he does something you like, pet him and talk to him with affection. Keep the words simple. Dogs don't understand sentences. They understand tones and repeated words.

    I recommend you spend an entire weekend doing nothing but working with Jake. When he starts to piddle or poop indoors, grab him and take him out to the grass. When he relieves himself there, make over him like he had just hit a trey at the buzzer. If you fail to get to him in time, roll him over on his back next to his mistake -- close enough to smell and associate but not in it. Grab him by the throat and growl the "no" as explained and ignore him.

    Ignoring a puppy is the worst kind of punishment because they want to please you and be your running bud.

    Also, when feeding Jake, make him sit and wait for you to finish the food preparation in his dish. Everytime he moves from the sit position, stop the feeding process and make him sit while instucting him to "sit." When he shows that he is going to sit, then say "Come" and let him eat. Pet him while he eats so that he will be used to it and not growl at people when being fed. Make him "sit" for a little longer each time so that he really associates the "come" with chow down time.

    If you do these things Jake will be a contented and happy dog. Hope that helps.
     
  15. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Oh, I forgot one thing. As he grows older, he will push the envelope just like any human kid. For instance, let's say he finds a piece of pizza on the ground. He wants it and you don't want him to have it because it will give him the runs later on.

    He is going to growl at you, show you his potent new teeth and make his first attempt at being the alpha male. That's when you have to grab him, forcefully put him on his back and show him your teeth with a fiercely growled, "no." A few experiences like that and he will never challenge your authority as the alpha male.

    He will be happy because he will understand his status in the "pecking order" of his "pack."
     
    #15 thumbs, Jul 27, 2003
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2003
  16. Rileydog

    Rileydog Member

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    manny, one last thing. It's not too early to start training. just keep the sessions short at first. puppies have serious attention deficit. always end on a good even (like when Jake successfully sits).
     
  17. Rockets2K

    Rockets2K Clutch Crew

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    thumbs reminded me of one other training advice I got once that seems to work.

    Make sure he knows that you are the alpha male in the house.
    The submission techniques are good, but also when you are doing them, make sure you hold his gaze and dont look away first..I was told that in a face-off, the dog that looks away first is considered the loser.
    Dont know how true that is, but I used to do that when he my dog was young..and like I said before..he always obeys me and will back down when I order him to.

    Coincidence or truth? who knows..but it cant hurt to try it.
     
  18. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Very good point. I forgot the staring into his eyes until he looks away part. Rileydog also made a good point. Puppy attention spans are very short. That's why the "ignore" phase of punishment should only last five or 10 minutes. All Spaniels absolutely thrive on praise and affection.

    Commands should be one syllable commands -- "sit" / "come" / "stay" / "heel" / "fetch" etc. except for "goodboy" (hope he gets lots of those). Our compliments for giving Jake a one syllable name.
     
    #18 thumbs, Jul 27, 2003
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2003
  19. RunninRaven

    RunninRaven Member
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    I GOT A SNAKE MAN
     
  20. RIET

    RIET Member

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    Just give the dog and girlfriend an occassional bone and they'll both be happy.
     

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